Single parents.

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Re: Single parents.

Postby pinky » 02 Jun 2010, 16:24

Yes Silke I guess warring parents too often get caught up in their own emptions and forget or choose to ignore the impact on the child/ren. It is good to see parents being amicable in front of their children for the childs sake. Children fare out so much better than the emotional damage done by warring parents
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Ice.Maiden » 03 Jun 2010, 11:30

I agree with that.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Toula » 03 Jun 2010, 19:40

threenorns wrote:, even though i personally would (at the moment) love to see him covered with honey and staked out on an anthill. smack in the middle of bear country.



Ahhh! threenorns, now sure he is some Mother's Son! :whistle: :whistle:

All joking aside, I think you have to be applauded for taking the stance which you do, I'm not sure many would be as strong a Mother as you are, let alone, understanding enough to let the ex / father be involved in the kids life. Unfortunately, many let their own bitter thoughts regarding the absent parent, rule their decision in NOT letting them have access to the kids. Of course the parent with care - mostly always the Mother, will have her own agenda with the Father, and will see it as 'punishment' on the ex to not allow them access to the child.

So, Fair Play to you love, for rising above any hurts / disappointments / or whatever you feel you have been dealt, and You have had the good, decent and common sense to step back from those, and acknowledge the wee ones Father! :clap:

The good thing about it threenorns, if he is an out and out asshole, Saari will see that in him, and will make her own mind up when she gets older, but one thing is for sure, she will respect you for doing what you thought RIGHT at this stage in her life. So you are still a winner all round love! :cool2:
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Silke » 03 Jun 2010, 19:46

oh yes! I totally agree, and I hope no one saw something else in my post!

I know of one couple who decided they couldn't ask anything of their children which they couldn't live with doing themselves. They also thought of the difficulties for the children going to and fro, so their solution was that the kids lived in the house and the parents would move in and out - instead of the kids going from one place to another. It worked for them - but then again they lived in the same city. By some of yours reckoning I'd say town.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Toula » 03 Jun 2010, 20:41

Oh Aye! and another thing I would like to add to this thread.

Why is it, that these Fathers - and I am sorry if that seems to be a very 'generalising' statement from me, but the FACT of the matter is, in the main, it IS the father who moves on and the Mother is left with the kids - just to make that point abundantly clear should any Father absent parents reading in may feel the need to come back at me on my statement!

Anyway, the Father will always bitch to anyone who is silly enough to listen to them - "Oh I love my kids, only for HER I would see my kids more! Oh I give them all that I can give them . . . . . . " Need I say more? They are NOT that concerned about the welfare of their kids when they piss off to somewhere else, another State, Country or whatever, making it harder for the Mother to obtain Child Support! God forbid that THEIR pocket will be hit to produce money! & What do they normally say in their defence?: "Well, you see, if I had the children, no problem, I would pay for whatever they need!" Or, in more modern time - "I talk to my kids on the Internet, as often as I can!" Aye right! WTF is that all about??

When women have said, "Well there you go, take them and raise them!" What is it the men say, "Well you see I would, but I've my work to attend! And they are better off with YOU their Mother"

Of course, there are circumstances when the Father has had to take on the responsibility of bringing up the kids, maybe the Mother died, maybe she went to prison, maybe she really is not capable of doing the job! What then happens? Every female, connected to the Fathers life, in every shape or form, from his Granny to His sisters come out and lend a hand to look after the children! Where is that 'net-work' of support shown to the Mother from HER In-Laws - it ain't!! I will defy the one, who thinks they can state differently!

Does anyone on reading this, know of an actual case where the Absent Father comes and takes the kids to all their extra-mural events? The speech, the drama, the ballet lessons, the ice-skating, aye, even football! Nope, the Mother has it all to do! How many School report cards have these Dads seen or signed, - let alone attend a PTA meeting? In the main - NONE!

But sure, aren't they all the doting Dads still, when boasting about their kids achievement, which they have had F all input to!?!?!

Well sure, I could rant for an age on it all, & YES I have had the experience & knowledge in every field in what I say both personnelly, and with kids who I've taught over many years!

Silke, what you have stated, is the exception to the rule, and if only they ALL could do what you have given as an example, then it would be beautiful. Sadly, in the main it is not the case love!

Just as a point of interest Silke, was 'THE HOUSE' technically that of the Mother or the Father? Brilliant conclusion and set-up, for the kids no matter what. :clap:
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Re: Single parents.

Postby pinky » 04 Jun 2010, 04:03

Toula that is so true. So many fathers get off scot free with responsibility for the child they helped create. Too many are immature anyways but yes it is the mother left holding the baby. Then too often the father is the one to come in with all the comments when things go wrong or all the presents and trips out during visits. I hate to see children seeing the other parent in say a place like Mc Donalds. Taking a child for a take away is not parenting. This does not allow the child to sit and talk to the father in private and to have their fears and concerns listened to and responded to.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Toula » 04 Jun 2010, 08:39

Oh Yes, you are so right and what yous said reminded me of the joke Frankie Boyle (Comedian) made once about if the CSA wanted to catch up with the Dad's for back payments, they could all be found in MacDonald's on a Saturday! :bleh:
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Silke » 04 Jun 2010, 08:58

Oh my goodness I love the fact that I don't live anywhere near you if that is more true than a generalisation! I have more examples too - one mother relinquished her child to the father because the father had house, steady income and security whereas she didn't. Obviously she stayed in contact and all that, but she paid the child support, not the other way around. The girl now lives with her mother as the mother now have a house and steady income - and it was convenient because of the child's education.

... and as to who owned that house, I'm not sure. Either they didn't split it before the children were grown, or it was hers as she owned it before they got together. I'm not sure of they split the cost of the other flat equally as they both lived there - or he took care of that as the house was hers. Anyway, the way the story ended with the kids grown was her house and he moved.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Toula » 04 Jun 2010, 20:34

Hi Silk, I can truthfully say that I know a few couples, were it was decided amicably between the both of them, that the father was the 'best' parent out of the two to raise the children, and so it was! However, that is really the 'exception to the rule' - Mum, in the main, gets the kids. For my part, I can only speak in facts, and one has to also realise that how the 'Law' is or how IT perceives things to be - - or even, how it administers decisions in this day and age, is a far cry from the 1950s - 60's when I was growing up, when parents separated. So I can only state - as fact - how it was for the likes of my Mother, left to rare the kids on her own!

Basically Women, had little to no rights in the eyes of the Law - Fact! The Man 'owned' the house - the roof over their heads - fact! Women technically could not get 'Credit' unless the Husband agreed to it - Fact! Most women were 'stay-at-home' Mothers and therefore were not in receipt of a 'wage' - again Fact! Professional women, in jobs like the Civil Service or a Teacher - as my own Mother was, had to give up their jobs once they married. A sad FACT!

In those days, as a WIFE was not an earner - then she would not have been included on the 'Deeds' to the marital home or even if it was a rented house, it was the Husband who was the Tenant per sé! The wife, Mother, in many circumstances never even knew what the Husband earned - they were simply allocated the weeks 'House Keeping Money' which the Lord and Master dictated / deemed - was suitable to run the household.

Now to cut to the case. In my own case, my Mother was fortunate enough to live in the house of Her Father, so when She and my Da split up, there was no question of who was moving out! He returned to England, and worked there, but His details, information, where-abouts - call it what you like, were a close guarded secret! Why? Because the bastard relinquished any responsibility to his kids! Was not prepared to pay to put clothes on our backs, or food on our table! He could do whatever the hell he liked, eat well, dine out every night if he wanted too and could throw vinegar on the wounds by sending his kids postcards from all arts & parts of the world he was visiting! A right 'Up You' job to us all. BTW, didn't stop Him causing my Mother grief at every wheel and turn! i.e., claiming that HE actually OWN our house! Stating to Solicitors that HE did send money for our maintenance! - - All these aspects, caused my own Mother to find the money to fight or debate them in whatever area they were applicable - money she never had!

But, for the kindness & goodness, of Her family, many times we would not have had food to eat. I'm not that proud that I can't admit, for years I wore others 'hand-me-downs' my siblings forget it - because it suits them to - not a subject for discussion among their equally, stuck-up friends - - Thank God, I am neither that stuck up nor proud, nor forgetful of the whole damn situation! I am extremely Proud of what my Mother did, what she achieved, and what she Faced and dealt with - much to the detriment of her own health eventually

Still, technically, as a married person, my Mother was not able to get a job in the area she was qualified in. Therefore, had to take on 'menial' tasks to simply feed and clothes us, before she would go cap-in-hand, and seek Government Aid or apply for any form of Benefits! I could write for an age, on all the 'wrongs' of the system, but suffice to say, the woman, with no help from others, made sure we all got our education to a 3rd level, and instilled in us - well mostly me - a fighting spirit to never let any man leave us in that position.

Yes, of course! eventually Laws changed, the Divorce Laws for one here in the 1980, we got 'Parity with GB'! Employer's began to take back married women. Eventually, she got her divorce - and not one penny was paid to the woman may I add! She was just so relieved to get rid of the aul sod. She got back into employment - sadly, her own health took a downward spiral, but still, the two of us had a rare old time travelling and seeing parts of the world which, up till then, we only read about in books etc. Sadly, She passed away in April 1992, but at least, she out-lived the bastard she was married to by 6 months - so up his!!

I could say a lot more, but sure we can keep that for another time. Bottom line, - in the main do I have empathy for the Man who is the Absent Parent? What do you think after reading what I've stated?? Am I really that worried if they are nailed to the fence?? :think: Let met think :?: :doh: NOPE!
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Silke » 05 Jun 2010, 04:43

... and people wonder why I say no to the question of fathers comming back into their childrens lives have any rights at all...

No, I don't feel for that kind of fathers either. I have the greatest respect for that kind of mothers however.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Ice.Maiden » 06 Jun 2010, 09:42

So do I, and it's all too often that mothers get the difficult task of rearing children on their own. However, I'm not averse to fathers coming back into their childrens' lives if they genuinely want to make a decent contribution.
I'm thinking of one particular case where a woman was left on her own, and the father, being young and immature, just took a hike. A few years down the line, he'd secured a decent job and asked the mother if he could see his child, with a view to having a proper input into his daughter's well being and education. After much huffing and puffing, the woman cast her own feelings to one side, and allowed access , on the understanding that the father didn't mess them about.
It turned out well. He took to his paternal duties, and has since spent a great deal of time in getting to know his 8 year old, and giving some good financial help. The parents'll never be a couple again, but have respect for the fact that they're both parents trying to do the best they can for the child they created together.
As parents, the two are better off apart, but they've come to agree on how the girl's brought up.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby pinky » 06 Jun 2010, 11:54

i think there should be a law that ensure fathers stay involved or have to maintain some responsibility for their child/ren. It seems to easy for them the way things are at the moment.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Silke » 07 Jun 2010, 03:03

please tell me, how are things at the moment?

Unless the mother keeps quiet about who the father is he has a responsibility here. If nothing else he needs to pay child support - that is the bare minimum. As far as possible, Norwegian courts judge shared custody, unless you can prove that that isn't in the child's best interest. Then mother or father get custody depending on suitability. well, that is the short version anyway.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby pinky » 07 Jun 2010, 05:50

Well Silke seems youlive in a fairer society!!! Over here in Ireland there is a slim chance of getting child maintenance paid by the father . If they are employed it can be deducted fromwages after a lengthy Court ordeal. Even still the father can quit his job and get another or even leave the jurisdiction or area and then its back to finding them again. For those who dont work the chance of getting any income is slim to none. Those who are very wealthy are about the only ones who are made contribute in any way.

Whilst money is only one way of showing responsibility acess and custody is not dealt with very well in Irish courts with the mum being premised as the main carer. We have this law that children born outside wedlock are illigetimate so that means the mother is the sole guardian of the child and the father is nothing unless he applies to the court to be appointed joint guardian. I could write forever on the inadequacies of the system, suffice to say it is a system that in the main is regulated by men as the majority of the judiciary are male so I doubt it will change.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby threenorns » 07 Jun 2010, 09:29

well, he's not 100% by any stretch but he does make the effort in fits and spurts to show up when she has a serious appointment to attend, etc. if she needed an operation, he'd be there - no doubt about that. of course, i might have to lend him the gas money but he'd do it.

and yeah - "work" is a chronic excuse. i told him also don't even TALK to me about spending $800 on photography equipment when he's not up to date on his child support.

but in front of saari, i make sure it's a united front even though i'm often fighting a losing battle - he still does the "look what i bought for you but mommy says you can't have it" crap and, another one i love, "daddy bought you a swimming pool" (the inflatable kind) but then he expects me to cover half the cost. i told him in that case, WE bought her a swimming pool and next time he can bloody well run it by me first. i said it's great she has a swimming pool now - she can use the water to support her body weight once she's too weak from lack of food to manage on her own!
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Re: Single parents.

Postby pinky » 07 Jun 2010, 11:09

oh lol Threenorms I bet its hard to smile and be nice through all that when you see whats underneath. Thing is as saari gets older she will soon see for herself what he is raelly like and it will be harder to cover up.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Toula » 07 Jun 2010, 19:00

Oh! threenorns, how familar does that all sound to me - in one way or other! But I still say, 'Fair Play to You', it is great that you can put your own differences aside with the louse, for the sake of Saari! :clap2:
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Silke » 08 Jun 2010, 05:34

ouch! we've had it a bit unjust the other way here - until DNA-tests. The mother could simply claim somebody to be the father - and unless he managed to somehow prove it isn't possible he would be given a court order to be "the father". Child-support is set - how much depends on his income - but if he doesn't pay it will be drawn straight from his bank account - no matter his work. "big brother" knows when he is getting paid so... This led to many single women discovering they are with child - jumping to bed with some rich guy and give him up as the father.

Some time the mother had the right to deny DNA-tests but now the "father" have the right to demand it. I guess that means a lot more fathers only pay for what is actually theirs.

and yeah, Saari isn't stupid I bet - she'll figure it out. Oh my! there are so many traps in a situation like that and so few ways out I'm not even going to start trying to sound like I know 100% what I'm talking about!
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Re: Single parents.

Postby threenorns » 08 Jun 2010, 10:06

oh, she's not a dumb bunny by any stretch - i hope i'm there to see his face when he realizes it, lol.
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Re: Single parents.

Postby Ice.Maiden » 08 Jun 2010, 13:55

Children DO see, as they grow up, but on the other hand, they have a different relationship with their fathers to the one the wife or partner has. Sometimes, it doesn't matter WHAT the father's been like - they're still "daddy" in the eyes of the child, and the person that they love.
I DO agree with DNA testing to pretty much determine who a father is, but over here, it costs a lot of money to have done.
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