"Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

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"Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby kg » 06 Oct 2011, 14:10


How far will they let it go? What can they (or are they willing to) do about it?

Wall St protests spread, unlikely sympathy from Fed

There were even 10 protesters arrested here in St. Louis, and it looks unlikely to diminish any time soon. People are frustrated and angry, and this is but a local manifestation of events happening world-wide.

I shudder to contemplate the outcome to all this. The possibilities are chilling.
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 09 Oct 2011, 15:17

Hopefully the protesters will keep the idiots and right wing extremist instigators away and the protests will remain peaceful. But the hatred the far right are spewing towards the OWS protesters tells me the protesters are doing the right thing. If you have a look on any far right blog you'll see them calling the OWS protesters Marxist and Stalinist but all the while singing the praises of the teaparty. It's laughable that the right defends the teabaggers, a group that openly reports on what they perceive to be "subversive" activities. Obviously subversion to the right wing extremists is any open criticism of the President (as long as they're GOP), the Military or any judeo-christian religion. Yeah, the teaparty un-patriots sound like boy scouts. All the OWS are protesting about is that they're sick of the rich getting tax breaks and the working and middle class having to tighten their belts. The teabaggers can't stand another movement that seems to paint them in an evil light, and rightly so.

So i hope the peaceful protests get bigger and reach more and more cities. Just as with Vietnam the protesters are using logic and peace and the far right can't stand it, all they understand is hatred.

Without activists and protesters we get nothing done, we just sit there and accept the status quo. Some people like the status quo, some people can't stand change. But i'm a Liberal, i live for change. And there are a lot of people out there just like me. I hope it spreads here. Obviously not like the riots, they were just mindless thugs. But protesters should rise up, tell the governments that we aren't going to sit quietly and let them use the little people as scape-goats so the elite can still live like Kings.

F*ck that! Smash the system! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!!

Sorry, i've calmed down now. ;)
Last edited by AJRC on 09 Oct 2011, 16:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby kg » 09 Oct 2011, 16:14

AJRC wrote:Sorry, i've calmed down now. ;)


Please...tell me how you do it! :?
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 09 Oct 2011, 17:01

It's taken years of practice, and having a family has helped. But there are times when i just want to join the protesters. Maybe i'm getting too old for that shit, and will sit on the by-line hoping that history paints our time in a good light and not a time of shadows.
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 10 Oct 2011, 15:29

You have to laugh when people play up to stereotypes. But Herman Cain is calling all the OWS protesters anti-American. Other GOP have come out to criticise the OWS movement. Nancy Pelosi rightly called Cantor a hypocrite for criticising the OWS protesters while embracing the teaparty. Whenever you get the right so angry like this they start to lose the plot, they start saying stupid things and acting like idiots, seen it on talk forums for over ten years now. The GOP are close to implosion now, Obama can use this to his advantage if he's savvy.
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby Yogi » 12 Oct 2011, 08:27

As far as I am concerned the Occupy Wall Street movement is dubious at it's best. They are advocating nothing less than anarchy, which I will admit is sometimes the only solution. But to walk the streets whining that us poor people are being abused by those wealthy bastards in control (of what I'm not sure), is just as mindless as the Right Wingnuts who enunciate a "patriotic" political philosophy that is nothing less than a cover to make their opposition a one term president.

I've been following that now famous group of hackers called Anonymous and it's various sects (LulzSec for one) on Twitter. The support for OWS from those notorious hacker groups is unanimous. Lest you forget, their claim to fame is the Wikileaks revelations that compromised the security of the US government and many corporations vital to our interests. The justification for all this is identical to what motivates the OWS movement, and that is simply to tear down the system. (Oh, and by the way Glenn, you should check out some of the featured members on Diaspora. They are active supporters of OWS and the Anonymous connection to them.)

If advocating change is exclusively a liberal phenomena, then I suppose I would fall into that category. But, the changes should be within the system not peripheral to it. Why is it that none of the OWS or Anonymous supporters are using their superior skills to run for office and change the system in ways that could make a difference? If their cause is so popular and just, they would take the country by storm. Don't bother to reply to my rhetorical question. I know the answer. The system is corrupt and needs to be torn down ... whaaa whaaa whaaa whaaaa whaaaaaaaaa
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 14 Oct 2011, 08:19

Not sure what they'll call the movement over here, but there's to be a protest at the London Stock Exchange tomorrrow.
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 15 Oct 2011, 07:39

I disagree that the OWS movement is anything like the teaparty. The teaparty is a movement driven purely by right wing politics, designed by the neocons to take over the government again as they did in 2000. The teaparty are people who say they hate government, but love big corporations. The OWS movement says they hate the government the way it is and blame the big corporations! The OWS movement is not a one party political movement, they advocate changing the entire political system, starting with the banks. True they don't seem to have any plan to make this happen or for themselves to move into government but they are making a stand. For too long now people have become sheep and accepted the status quo. It's easy to just live your life the way the establishment want you to live it, change is hard. The OWS movement is sick of the status quo, it actively wants change no matter how hard it is.

The right wing is likening the OWS movement to the peace movement of the early 60's. It's very telling of the type of person who is against the OWS movement when all you hear is hippie this and hippie that. It also shows the age difference between the two opposing sides. The teaparty is predominantly older people suffering from political malaise, people who have just given up and just accept what their told. The OWS is mainly idealistic young people who want to change the world overnight. It worked back in the 60's, and as the fear in the right wing is evident, it could work again.

The OWS can't help who supports them, if hackers want to support them then that's their choice. It like saying the teaparty is responsible for all the white supremacist groups that support them.

The system is broken, even the teaparty knows this. But the teaparty thinks their side can fix it even though their side is responsible for breaking it in the first place. The OWS movement wants to change the entire system, not just the blue or red side, both sides! I doubt anything will change for the foreseeable future, it took the peace movement over ten years for the government to finally listen, but every movement has to start somewhere.

I don't support everything they've done, but i support their idealism and wanting change.
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby Yogi » 15 Oct 2011, 09:12

When I compare the OWS movement to notorious Right Wingnuts, I'm not talking political agendas. It's more of a mindset I see that has been put in place by effective propaganda and ignorance. Kicking the black guy out of the White House is no more a political agenda that tearing down the financial basis of our nation and hoping something better will emerge. In my opinioin, both the Tea Party and the OWS activists are pissed as a result of delusions they suffer.

The Tea Party is easy to understand because their agenda is obvious, but the OWS idealist have yet to enunciate any concrete demands. That's because they don't have a clue about what they are protesting. Fortunately there are people in this word who can think for themselves and not just organize a protest march because the weather is good. I tip my hat to Matt Taibbi for having a notion of what it's all about and can say it in terms us average folks can understand. I don't agree with Taibbi on all his points, but at least HE does have a point to make.

Hackers for OWS is not any worse than evangelical Tea Party supporters. But again, it's not the politics that is dangerous here. The bad guys can always be voted out or impeached. The concern is that anarchy is being mistaken for reform. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree changes need to be made, but I'm not too fond of the tactics being deployed today. I wasn't comfortable with the Viet Nam protesters either, and as far as their peace marches are concerned the situation in the middle east today shows how effective those people were.


A PLAN: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... s-20111012
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 17 Oct 2011, 13:18

Well the OWS movement is truly a global movement now. Yes, some are anti-capitalist, some are anti-establishment and some don't know what the hell they are they just fancied protesting about anything. I agree some of the tactics used are wrong but i'd rather they're wrong and make mistakes than be right and do nothing. That's the trouble, people can see there's a problem but don't do anything about it. They've been brainwashed by government and big corporations into thinking they can't change the world. They believe they have to accept the status quo. But the world is changing, it's changing everyday. People can either fight it and stagnate or try to change it and maybe get something better.

Government, big corporations and banks don't want change. They've seen how they can bankrupt whole nations and get away with it because people just accept it. It takes courage to stand up and say no, this is wrong, things have to change. But the establishment doesn't like courageous people, it sees them as dangerous to their way of life.

I rather not have my kids grow up in a world where the banks can screw up but they have to pay for it. I'd rather they have a better world than the one we have now.
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 19 Oct 2011, 13:19

NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)– The following is a letter released today by Lloyd Blankfein, the chairman of banking giant Goldman Sachs:

Dear Investor:

Up until now, Goldman Sachs has been silent on the subject of the protest movement known as Occupy Wall Street. That does not mean, however, that it has not been very much on our minds. As thousands have gathered in Lower Manhattan, passionately expressing their deep discontent with the status quo, we have taken note of these protests. And we have asked ourselves this question:

How can we make money off them?

The answer is the newly launched Goldman Sachs Global Rage Fund, whose investment objective is to monetize the Occupy Wall Street protests as they spread around the world. At Goldman, we recognize that the capitalist system as we know it is circling the drain – but there’s plenty of money to be made on the way down.

The Rage Fund will seek out opportunities to invest in products that are poised to benefit from the spreading protests, from police batons and barricades to stun guns and forehead bandages. Furthermore, as clashes between police and protesters turn ever more violent, we are making significant bets on companies that manufacture replacements for broken windows and overturned cars, as well as the raw materials necessary for the construction and incineration of effigies.

It would be tempting, at a time like this, to say “Let them eat cake.” But at Goldman, we are actively seeking to corner the market in cake futures. We project that through our aggressive market manipulation, the price of a piece of cake will quadruple by the end of 2011.

Please contact your Goldman representative for a full prospectus. As the world descends into a Darwinian free-for-all, the Goldman Sachs Rage Fund is a great way to tell the protesters, “Occupy this.” We haven’t felt so good about something we’ve sold since our souls.

Sincerely,

Lloyd Blankfein

Chairman, Goldman Sachs
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Postby Yogi » 24 Oct 2011, 10:51

Borowitz notwithstanding, I ran across an article with some facts in it that put the whole OWS movement into it's proper perspective. The article only addresses the United States version, and points out that the OWS crowd's purpose seems to be to protest the top 1% of the money making people in this country. Indeed OWS calls themselves the 99% Percenters. Well, there is a conservative group call The 53 Percenters. They say only 53% of American families are paying income taxes, and by implication making life easier for those marching on Wall Street and other places.

The interesting part of the article is a breakdown of who the 47% of non-taxpayers are. Basically it's people living in poverty and people who can take enough legal deductions to avoid any tax liability. It's quite a revealing analysis and offers a solution to the problem: revise the US tax code. Nice idea, but I don't expect to see it happen in my lifetime.

53 PERCENTERS: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/ ... don_t.html
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 25 Oct 2011, 03:12

There's a surprise, conservatives letting the rich off and attacking the poor! But i sort of agree, ok the ones who can't afford to pay their tax get the breaks, but why are the ones who still get a decent wage not paying income tax? The article claims that the tax breaks started with Dubya, which obviously will be ignored by the conservatives, and were increased under Obama. Obviously the poor and those under the poverty line need to be looked after and given all the help they can get, but the ones with a comfortable living shouldn't be getting the same tax breaks. So as you say a new tax code is needed. Maybe Perry has the right idea with his scrapping of the tax code and having a flat 20%. Ok, so he's an unelectable loony, but he may just have the answer.
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Postby Yogi » 25 Oct 2011, 10:57

Not all conservatives are looney and some of their ideas make sense. The concept of a flat tax rate has been around for many years. The argument against it is that poor people would suffer the most. Just think about taking away 20% of the income from a family that is already below the poverty level and you get an idea what is at stake. And, if you make exceptions for poor people, that just opens the flood gates for other exceptions which is how we got to where we are today.

For the most part write offs on personal income taxes were designed to stimulate spending and investing. I think that made sense at one time when the economy and government were small enough to be overridden by that economic fundamental of supply and demand. Today organizations are too big to succumb to the basic laws of economics - they make their own rules which is what the OWS movement is objecting to. My idea of fixing the tax code would be to eliminate all deductions and write-offs and to maintain the progressive tax structure we have in place. That is, the more you earn the more you pay. The standard deductions should still apply and be adjusted so that anyone below the poverty level would have no tax liability. While corporate taxes are a whole other ball game, I think things could easily be simplified there as well. No profitable enterprise should be exempt from paying their fair share.
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 27 Oct 2011, 07:12

I agree, not all of them are loony. I've never stated that they were, as you say some of their ideas are good. A true fiscal conservative would be the best to get any nation out of the mess Dubya got us all in, but there aren't many true fiscal conservatives about these days.

Perry on the other hand is a loony, one idea does not negate that fact! Also all right wing extremists are loonies, as our last loony proved.

As long as big corporations run governments you will never see a tax code change. It's only when the little people can't afford to buy from the big corporations that things might change. Isn't capitalism great.
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 28 Oct 2011, 03:06

Inviting You to Share in the American Dream

Dear American:

American corporations have taken a beating recently. We’ve been accused of everything from buying elections to subverting the Constitution to being puppet-masters of the Supreme Court.

To these charges we say: Well, duh.

As a wise man once said, “Corporations are people.” Therefore, to be treated like a person in America today, it stands to reason that you must become a corporation.

That’s why, for a limited time, we are offering every man, woman and child in this country a chance to incorporate and become a card-carrying member of Corporation of American Corporations (CAC™).

As a newly-formed corporation, you’ll immediately reap the benefits that such other CAC™ members as the Koch Brothers enjoy, such as:

-- Exemption from Federal, State and local taxes

-- Freedom to despoil America’s air, water, and birdlife

-- Exclusive opportunities to sell weapons to Iran

So join us, won’t you? Wire the Corporation of American Corporations ™ a payment of $10,000, and start enjoying the rights and privileges that the U.S. Constitution used to grant to ordinary individuals. Don’t pass up this amazing offer. We promise you: it’s too big to fail.

Sincerely,

The Corporation of American Corporations™

(The Borowitz Report) ;)
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Re: "Occupy Wall Street" -How Far Will It Go?

Postby AJRC » 28 Nov 2011, 10:42

Seems the OWS in LA have won a reprieve, they're allowed to stay in the park but they can't block any streets or risk arrest. I think the eviction notice was a bad move, an extra 1000 people turned up to show their support. And now it's reported that there are at least 485 tents in City Hall Park.

I hope the police recognise that the OWS is a non-violent movement. No repeats of the pepper spray incident!
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