A Case Against FOSS

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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Kellemora » 27 Jul 2014, 11:09

Hi Yogi

FWIW: Even using Mickey$ofts own programs, DOCX is not fully convertible to DOC or any other format.

They have msOFFICE 2013 with msWord using the DOCX as the default save format at work.
And even they cannot open a DOCX document with editing notations or marginal notes and resave as DOC without losing all of it. They have the same problem we do in both OpenOffice and Libre Office.
Not matter how many marginal notes were made, only the first note appears in each box throughout the document.

Most professional, proprietary and expensive editing software for Mac or PCs, can read almost anything, except DOCX. Oh it reads the text, but none of the editing marks and notations. They have no trouble at all with the DOC format. The makers of this software do not appear to be finding a solution to the DOCX problem. Mickey$oft has changed way to many worldwide long-standing standards to figure them all out.

Even if they did figure it out and made workarounds for the problems DOCX has caused, it would cost the Big Five (Big Three now) over a million dollars just to upgrade their software to read DOCX. I doubt very much if they will fork over that kind of money when all they have to do is tell everyone to do and save their work as DOC files.

Both OpenOffice and LibreOffice can open the text part of a DOCX file, and all features of a DOC file.
But anything like marginal notes, editing notes and symbols, and other editing features are all lost if the file format is DOCX.

Even the DOC format itself can cause minor but correctable problems, so anytime we have to save our work in the DOC format, we are supposed to use the DOC format for 97, 2000, XP, 2003 versions. We can use the 2003 XML version also, but not the 2007 or 2010 XML version, which was when they began messing with the XML codes, now called DOCX. We cannot save in 95 or 6.0 versions of DOC either.
Mickey$oft should have used different file extensions for the many different DOC versions, since they are not compatible with each other. But convoluting XML and still calling it XML raised enough of a roar, they renamed it DOCX. It is almost like they are trying to force people away from their products by not sticking with industry standards.

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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Yogi » 01 Aug 2014, 08:29

I ran across some numbers that put Firefox into perspective. It's true that liars use statistics, but no explanation for the numbers are given. Without analysis we can clearly see the Mozilla browser taking 15% of market share. Chrome checks in at 20.3%. The linked article shows Chrome to be gaining in popularity while Firefox at best is holding it's own. For some reason I'd expect something that is free and open sourced to be doing better than 15% market share.


http://thenextweb.com/insider/2014/08/0 ... ra-falls-1
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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Kellemora » 01 Aug 2014, 13:37

Let me ask a similar question this way to put it into perspective.

When you buy a new car, do you run out and have someone replace the radio that came with the car, with one of your own choosing, or do you just use the radio that came supplied with the car?

A FEW will have fancy new radios installed in their car, because they don't like the factory installed model.

The same holds true for IE, it came pre-installed in the package the user bought. And even though it is much simpler to install another browser on their computer, many are not that bright, and/or they just use what came with the OS. These are your typical Windoze users too.

Windoze dominates the marketplace, so the software that comes pre-installed is naturally going to hold the dominant place, unless it is so bad people must change from it.

If you want to find a fair comparison between browsers, how many people who do not use Windoze load which browsers. Or if Windoze did NOT come with an installed browser, which one would they choose?

Remove PRE-INSTALLED browser users, and only count those who PURPOSELY selected a browser, and see which browser was chosen when given a choice. Then the ratios would have more meaning.

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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Yogi » 02 Aug 2014, 08:06

You make a good observation, but that doesn't explain why Chrome is doing better than Firefox nor does it address the flat line growth curve of Mozilla's offering.
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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Kellemora » 02 Aug 2014, 12:33

I'm one who rarely uses Mozilla Firefox anymore, when it used to be my browser of choice.
That being said, some new changes in Google Chrome, which I normally use now, is causing me to use a few others to see if they fare better.
Google Chrome changed their form fill system, and now only have ONE form, and it does not work for very many places anymore.
They used to have a generic default form for new uses, but you could override with different data, and it remembered which website you used the alternate forms at.
Now they just have the single generic form, and it is set up completely different than the original default form.
So since the last Google Chrome upgrade, every website I got to, where I have to use form-fill data. I'm back to having to retype the data, because Google Chrome now gets it wrong every single time. And there is no way to make it properly fill out the form, even by editing the form fill data.
It worked perfectly before, now it is totally useless to me.
They call it progress or upgrade? I call it a major downgrade!
The new form fill program doesn't even place my name in the proper boxes on the forms, no matter how many times I fill them out by hand and tell it to save the data this way. Google Chrome just can't do that anymore.
To save time on some places I use form fill data, I had to change my name considerably for those websites, where it is not critical that my name be all that accurate. But for all the rest, I must hand enter all the data the form fill used to handle at a mouse click.

I've been way to busy to play around with different browsers much to see if any have a proper form fill system. I think that is why I began using Google Chrome instead of Chromium, was to take advantage of their once perfect form fill feature.

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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Yogi » 03 Aug 2014, 09:12

I agree with you entirely that upgrades in software are not always improvements. Part of the problem is that software developers try to appeal to the largest audience and cannot accommodate us folks with special needs. I personally consider it a security risk to have my browser save anything like form data, which often includes my credit card information. I don't use that feature nor do I save passwords inside the browser. The password file I do keep on my computer is encrypted so that you may have a copy if you would like it. But I'm not giving you the key. LOL

Browser features such as saving personal information are extras that I don't consider to be a true browser function. The complaint I have with Firefox is in the way it implements worldwide web page rendering standards. Mozilla is not unique in it's misinterpretation of the W3C standards but I do think their insistence on not paying license fees is a liability instead of an asset.
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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Kellemora » 03 Aug 2014, 10:01

I hate to say this Yogi, but the more I get stuck using a Windoze computer, the more I hate it.
I have a meeting tonight, and my little Acer Notebook, although it has Debian installed, I have no driver for the WiFi, so use Windows7 which came preinstalled on the device.
EVERY TIME I go to use it, it has to download HOURS of updates.
I turned it on last night at 6:30 pm to download my current working folders for the meeting tonight.
I sat there until 9:30 pm before it was done with the next raft of updates and security patches.
I had to reboot three times during this long slow process.
Finally when it was all done doing that, I uploaded the folders I need to take with me tonight.
It took less than 30 seconds to download everything I needed for the meeting.

In the process of downloading and installing the security updates, it somehow blocked my external keyboard and mouse reader program. Not compatible, was the first problem. I reloaded the drivers then the next problem was it was blocked as being malware, no something or other clearance was found.
My battery power had dropped from 97%, all the way down to 36% during all this hoopla.

Although I finally did get it all working, my plug-in keyboard, wireless mouse, and WiFi. By then I was so pissed off I came close to dropping the whole thing in the trash can.
Good thing I checked the bag first. I had forgotten I went out and bought a WiFi Dongle I knew for certain worked on this Notebook with Debian 7, and even made the computer store install and test it before I paid him.

I stuck it in the left side USB port, my keyboard in the right USB port, and the wireless mouse reader into the extra port on the keyboard plug.
Booted into Debian 7. The little Red multi-point star was in the upper panel, indicating I had some upgrades to download. It had been so long since I used this notebook on Debian, it had three Kernel updates to install. I though Oh Boy, here we go again. I started the updates at five minutes til 10 pm. It was done and telling me to reboot at 10:07 pm. I rebooted and everything was working. I downloaded my meeting folders for tonight. Checked each file in each folder, all was well.
The battery power indicator was at 36% when I started, it was now down to 32% and I was up and running.

I played a few games of FreeCell until the mouse battery died, I replaced that, turned the mouse off, powered down, unhooked everything, and plugged it in to charge up for tonight.
This morning, just to make sure, I plugged in the dongle and powered up. Debian booted right up, battery at 99%, normal on this machine, I've never seen it say 100% yet, except if it is ON, already booted up, and I unplug the charger, then it changes from a lightning bolt to 100% for about 2 minutes, then changes to 99%.
The WiFi connected and I got the red star again, it only had one file to load and install, less than 15 seconds and it was done.

Before sticking it back in the case, I booted into Windows7. It takes forever and a day to boot up in Windoze.
After I clicked on My Icon for it to finish loading, it gave me a security warning, I clicked ignore and just shut the machine down.

I have a friend who has this exact same Acer Aspire 722, with the SAME wifi chipset that I have. NOT Broadcom.
His worked with Ubuntu 11.04, and 12.04, I tried Ubuntu 12.04 on mine, and WiFi didn't work. Seems there are more than two Atheros chipsets, and I have the one not supported by Ubuntu. TaTa Ubuntu.
14.04 claims to cover all Atheros chipsets, but I have not tried it yet.

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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Yogi » 03 Aug 2014, 13:51

You have my sympathies. :(

My windows 7 Ultimate boots in 39 seconds which is just a few seconds longer than Ubuntu on the same machine takes to boot. As far as Windows updates go, they come down the pipes on Tuesdays and the security updates on Fridays. If you miss a few weeks, or months, you will have a lot to download. Truth is Ubuntu is the same with the exception that they send down updates nearly every day. Nice, but do I really want to have to update any operating system daily?

Every time there is a kernel update, I have to run a script from the Linux shell in order to reinstall my video drivers. I'm not going to point fingers at who is responsible for that screw up, but I don't have that problem with Windows. I have always had that problem with Linux.

I will also say that Ubuntu 14.04 is probably the best version of Ubuntu I've seen since Ubuntu 9.x. I never did have problems connecting my wireless printer or using the wireless network from my router. Perhaps I'm just lucky there, or maybe it's the fact I have an HP laptop and not an Acer. Yes, I know what you think of HP. LOL My tower is a wired Ethernet connection so that drivers are never a problem there.
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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Kellemora » 04 Aug 2014, 12:26

I think I mentioned this before, but Ubuntu's Turn-Key 8.04 LTS release is what brought me back to Linux.
It installed and worked perfectly right out of the box. I enjoyed the interface, and only had a few hardware problems, of which I found the drivers for everything except the HP Scanner.
As far as I'm concerned about Ubuntu, 10.04 was a major downgrade from 8.04, and 12.04 was yet another major downgrade. This is why they LOST me over to Debian.

Debian 5 and 6 worked great for me. My biggest recent mistake was UPGRADING, rather than keeping my old OS and placing the new version on a new partition. I used the UPGRADE Debian6 to Debian7 feature. I had no idea they BROKE so many things. You can't roll back without doing a clean install. So I goofed big time by going that route. I am not at all happy with Debian7, and they don't seem to care about fixing the problems they have caused. They blame CUPS because Printers no longer work. CUPS blames Debian7 for changing how it works. And the battle goes on with no resolution in sight.
Other than the Printing Problem, and the LOUSY Gnome3 I'm running in an imperfect Classic Mode.
Debian7 has remained stable with no problems on all three of my daily use computers.

As far as updates, the big red star, I only do those on Friday night or Saturdays now, and do them first on my least used computer to see if it messed anything up. So far, no mess ups on any updates.

I have very little time to play around. I work 8 hours a day, sometimes up to 10, before I get to my own necessary things, like writing and editing my WIPs. At the keyboard from 8 am sharp to close to midnight every day is getting very old very fast.

Other than the notebook, everything else is hard wired. And I often plug the notebook in so it's hard wired also. It does not change the speed of handling Windows updates though. The downloads only take a few seconds to a minute or so. It's the installers that are so danged slow. Hardwired might be 5 to 10 minutes faster over a 3 hour spread. And yes I realize a notepad does not run at 3gHz, more like 1.8gHz.

Maybe I will take another look at Ubuntu again. I have plenty of space on the netbooks hard drive.
FWIW: I tried Mint Maya and it did not run on two of my three computers, nothing but problems with it.
When I had a little time, I also played with the free RedHat versions again. But for me to go that route would like a whole new learning curve all over again. I'm pretty much used to Debian based systems now.

TTUL
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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Yogi » 05 Aug 2014, 10:37

I have a single Debian installation that runs a specialized OS. I'm pretty sure it's Debian 6.0.x but I'd have to look to make sure. I can't say that I have any problems whatsoever with Debian, but the special apps that run on the system can be challenging at times. I'm also not sure what version Gnome is in this system. It could be 2 or 3 and would not matter much. The features of this system are very limited to begin with and not much is needed to support it. It's all contained on a memory stick and run off a port on my HP laptop. That means I'm not asking Debian to use my nVidia video card which causes problems on my tower machines.

I also have a chromebook simulator built on openSUSE and with a Mint GUI. I'm not all that impressed with openSUSE but the GUI has a nice look and feel. It's all been bastardized to make it look like Chrome so that it's hard to tell what it could be. I can't upgrade SUSE because of the customizations, and they are not keeping up Mint. So, what I have looks good, but it's a few years old and not state of the art like the genuine product it's emulating.

My experiences with Ubuntu have been positive overall, but I don't have the same needs that you do. I can live with the Unity interface and actually have come to like it more and more with each iteration of the OS. The most welcome aspect of Ubuntu is the ease of set up that keeps getting easier. The same kind of driver battle goes on with nVidia verses Ubuntu (based on Debian) that you see with CUPS, but I now have that work around figured out. I have no problems setting up my HP wireless printer, and to my utter surprise they have drivers for my specific model of printer. My NAS is loaded with Windows shares and Ubuntu simply asks for the passwords and has no trouble accessing it. I will admit that their software repository is lacking in some ways and that apt sometimes can't handle dependencies. However, I found that installing through Synaptic always fixes any problems. I think they have come a long way making it easy to use and install. In your case you would have to learn to like Unity which may not be such a bad thing. Typing in keywords is in some ways a lot easier than fiddling with drop down menus, but I may be biased. My whole interest in Ubuntu is to explore it's differences and to see how well they are integrating into the mobile device world. They seem to be ahead of the pack in that regard.
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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Kellemora » 06 Aug 2014, 09:10

Hi Yogi

I would venture to guess that you have Debian 6 with Gnome 2, if everything seems to be working right.

After I upgraded to Debian 7 with the Gnome 3 desktop, I used it a full-month to see if I could get used to it. The problem was, it had none of the features I use a hundred times a day, nor could they be added to Gnome 3.
There was a work around, but it really slowed down how long it took to do something too.
It may take three to five different steps to do what was handled in only ONE CLICK on Gnome 2.

Using Gnome 3 Classic only helped a little, but I got used to it after spending days trying to add the many things Gnome 3 removed. Some of them cannot be added back, because Gnome 3 doesn't support very much.

Regardless of what desktop I use, there is no real reason why a printer that worked perfectly in Debian 6, no longer works in Debian 7. What did they mess up so royally that causes most of the stock programs to not print properly, if at all?
Ironically, I did find two simple work around solutions for this, both time consuming. I also figured out how to speed up the process slightly. Rather than using a shared folder on my computer, and placing what I want to print in it, then going to another computer and going through the steps to open a shared folder on the second computer to print from. I just placed a folder named ToPrint in my Dropbox. When I want to print something out, I move it to Dropbox, which is only one click away on both computers, and it updates automatically.
I go to the other computer, which I have an ancient version of Knoppix handy, and leave it running most of the time now. No particular reason I used Knoppix, other than I had it on CD the day I needed to do a lot of printing and installed it, rather than running from the CD. I loaded the print driver that came with the printer, and everything works perfectly, so I didn't change anything after that.

I could probably do it easier if I understood how "Print to File" works.
There must be something I never learned on how to use it properly.

I have no idea why OS's are trying to look like Cell Phones?
My wife, who LOVED the interfaces like Unity and Gnome 3, has steadily complained about its growing complexity and taking longer to find anything at all. She likes it on her Cell Phone, which she doesn't try using as a computer, and only has a few things to scroll through. But on her notebook, she'll want to show me something and is sitting there for the longest time scrolling back and forth trying to find it. I'm sure there is an easier way, but if so, she's not figured it out yet herself.

FWIW: I have to switch between workspaces several times for each thing I'm working on.
The only way I can see around having to do this, is to buy a computer that can support six monitors and keep everything on the same workspace, but moved around to different monitors. I already use two monitors and three computers and often use all six workspaces on each, during my work day. When doing my own work, I usually have at least four of the six I need access to on this computer, and two on the upper monitor.
So any interface that does not allow TWO Panels, one top and one bottom, the main reason I moved back to Linux was for this feature. Then it is basically useless to me.

An author friend of mine, a die hard Windows user, came over to help with a critiquing problem I was having on a story. Not counting my other computers or monitors, he just sat in awe at how I can jump to anything he asked in a split second, and it was right there where I left it, to the very line I left it as well.
I think what amazed him was I didn't have to open or close the screens, like you do when you place items in the systray on windows. I can still do this on Linux of course, the same way as windows. But then you have to open over the top of what you are working on, which takes a little longer, and also moves your cursor to a different position. Using workspaces, my cursor is where I left it, highlighted lines stay highlighted, etc.
Of course, you know all of this already.

TTUL
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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Yogi » 08 Aug 2014, 08:41

I rarely watch television. One day by chance I was passing by one that was running an advertisement for Widows Surface I believe. To be honest I'm not sure what Microsoft was selling there, but the idea behind the ad was striking. They basically were demonstrating the versatility of a tablet "that can be used as a computer." I did a double take when they made that astonishing revelation because I grew up thinking a computer is a computer is a computer.

Tablets are not computers. The reason they exist at all is due to the changes in how people use computers these days, i.e., typically in a mobile environment. It's pretty hard to see how a company like Microsoft just figured that out this year, but the ad was a poignant statement about computing in general. It ain't what it used to be.

The sea changes we are drowning in with operating systems and the devices they power are all a response to how people do things. Computing devices are no longer a game or a luxury or something only nerds do. Computing is now an essential part of our daily life with emphasis upon essential. The old and established players, like Microsoft, were caught unprepared for the quickness of the changes in how we do things. They even thought that THEY controlled us and our needs. Now they all, Linux OS's included, are trying to either catch up or be a leader of the pack. Those of us whose needs have not changed over the past couple years (or decades in my case) might be bewildered by the old reliable vendors who are abandoning our needs. But, if the developers of OS's and applications don't move on quickly, they become irrelevant.

I think you built yourself the equivalent of a NASA command and control center. Your needs are very specific and unique. Take pride in the fact that you were able to build something so specialized with off the shelf equipment. But, unless you have an engineering staff at your disposal, you are not going to find it easy going forward. Enterprises are now placing mobile devices in the workplace, but they have the resources to do it. People like you and I are stuck with making do with what is available commercially. It won't be long before we can no longer adapt and we will have to change our ways instead. We can take comfort in knowing we did not create an industry as Microsoft did, and then be stuck with an infrastructure that is no longer meaningful. You and I may be paying thousands of dollars to keep up with the changes, but companies like Microsoft are laying off tens of thousands of employees and seeing billions of dollars in past investments become obsolete. It's frightening when a behemoth like Microsoft no longer can simply adapt. It remains to be seen if they can change quickly enough.
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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Kellemora » 08 Aug 2014, 11:34

Hi Yogi

My wife and I stopped by the city/county building to have one of our old permits revoked. Flatwork does not require a permit UNLESS its purpose is for handicapped facilitation. Then you need a permit and inspection. It was only a short nearly level ramp between the driveway and the back door of the house, with 4-1/2 inch elevation over flatwork. We could have done it without a permit, but at the time had a couple of neighbors who reported everything. So we got the permit. I wanted to replace the wood planks with plastic composite planks, and since it is no longer for a handicapped person, I went to have the permit revoked so I could do it without a permit.

Oops, went off on a tangent. What I wanted to say was, we went to the city/county building and ALL of the computers on the desktops were now LAPTOPS.
The first thing I noticed was everyone was working at the wrong heights, which can cause serious medical problems for them. Rather than a lap level keyboard under the desktops, they were typing on the Laptops on TOP of the desktops. Well, not everyone, a few of the older folks were using keyboards on the keyboard drawers, connected to their laptops.

These must have been really expensive laptops too, because they all had large touch screens, most were HP brand, a couple of Toshiba's, and in a few of the glassed in offices I saw super expensive Lenovo's.
The only places that still had a separate monitor was at the counters a visitor walks up to. These were Dell's and totally touch screen, no keyboards I could see with them. POS terminals maybe?

We were sent back to a person at a desk to handle our request, and from this angle I could see all the computers were running Windows 8. But the thing that surprised me the most, was the computer on persons desk I was at, showed 8 GB memory, 750 GB HD, Intel core i5.
Now WHY on earth would a Workstation connected to a mainframe need 8 GB of memory, and all that power and storage space?
I looked on-line after we got home, and 4 GB is still the normal range for on-board memory.
I run my Linux boxes on only 2 GB of memory and have never used the swap file.
I did install 4 GB when I built the first one, but pulled 2 GB from it to build a second.

In sharp contrast. The company where my wife used to work, that handles credit card transactions, has all Dell desktop computers, sorta. I don't know how, but FOUR workstations share a single Computer. Not sure how, must be something new in the workplace. But they too do all their work from a mainframe. They all have Windows 7 on the floor, but the mainframe is UNIX/Linux...
Since she no longer works there, she can't find out anything anymore from the IT department.
I would be curious as to how they run four workstations from a single box.
You can see this easily through the windows, only one computer for each four desks placed together in like a circular fashion, like fan blades so to speak. They made some major design changes after the hailstorm and their roof sections came in on their equipment. It actually looks nice and like a more friendly work environment.

I could probably do my work on a laptop IF I had a keyboard and mouse connected to it. But I don't think I could keep up my production if I had to use Windows. I'm too used to how Linux works now, especially with the six workspaces I have on each computer.

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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Yogi » 09 Aug 2014, 07:49

The Microsoft ad I referred to above speaks to a growing trend. Large corporations are replacing workstations with tablets that can be docked and made to operate like a desktop; well, maybe more like a laptop. These environments have their own local cloud storage systems and are developing applications of their own specific to the company's needs. It doesn't matter if the apps are run on Windows 8, Google Chrome, Ubuntu, Android, or iOS. The notable aspect of it all is that many employees are no longer required to be tied to their desks in order to perform their job.

The infrastructure and hardware a given operation uses for information services is the result of budget considerations and the creativity of the department's director. The high end Windows 8 environment could be overkill (or not) resulting from a sweetheart deal they made with a local vendor. Ordering a boatload of identical machines has to be cheaper than outfitting an office full of unique stand alone boxes. 8GB of RAM on a mobile device smells like some kind of virtualization may be going on. I don't think there are true mainframes anymore, but I can see every computer in a given office connected to a Windows share on some remote server or to a database off on a server farm. It's hard to say what is going on there, but you can be sure cost was a consideration.

You probably are doing the equivalent of four workstations sharing a single computer at your home where you use file sharing. There are instances when it makes sense to cluster computers that way (VPN's perhaps?} and cut down on traffic to the enterprise level servers. Not knowing what kind of software is being run on these devices, it's hard to say if they need the kind of memory they have. The assumption is that bigger heads than ours figured it all out.
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Re: A Case Against FOSS

Postby Kellemora » 09 Aug 2014, 13:22

Hi Yogi

Regardless of what is in each of the laptops at the city/county building, I'm sure they paid less than 300 bucks each for them. I wouldn't doubt if they paid half that much, at the quantity they purchased.

Back to where my wife used to work.
The guy who builds computers I talk to quite often, offered two options based on my physical description of the set-up. He said things like:
Linux has had low load "MultiSeat" capability for a long time. Great for classroom instruction, but not feasible for business.
Microsoft came out with Windows MultiPoint Server a few years ago. So a few businesses have tried using a MultiSeat setup with USB Docking Stations to make the connections.
However, what I am seeing is probably not what I'm thinking I'm seeing.
He doubts very much if I'm seeing a PC box. He seems to think I'm seeing a mini-rack cabinet that holds four motherboards vertically, like they are in PC cabinets.
This would be the cheapest and most logical way for a business to set up groups of four workstations in the smallest amount of space possible. Rather than buying four bare bones PCs, they buy one four board mini-rack for 1/3 less cost and same 3/4 the space. The cabinet would look like PC, unless you saw the bottom where the connections are made.
Since I said the desks are all in a circle like the blades of a fan. He thinks they are using a cheap tall rack cabinet with the desks pushed up against it, which would be dumb, since they can get a minirack for under 30 bucks and buy a single rackmount with four motherboards much cheaper than individual motherboards.
He then said if he was setting up such a system, he would simply use remote Monitor, Mouse, and Keyboard. It is a feature in Windows 2000, XP, 2003, Vista, and Windows 7, but locked out, just need to unlock the feature is all. Do it wirelessly within 300 feet, or hardwired anywhere in the building. But he would have to know what kind of server they are running, its size, and a whole bunch of other stuff he said that was well over my head.

In the end he said they are probably using four motherboards in a minirack, since they are all Windows 8 with touchscreens. There's no multiseat options in Windows 8.

TTUL
Gary
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Kellemora
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