UEFI + Linux = Dead Computer

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UEFI + Linux = Dead Computer

Postby Yogi » 30 Jan 2013, 10:58

I've been reading reports where the Linux community is screaming foul when it comes to implementation of UEFI standards in the boot process. I've been skeptical about the reports but now have some solid evidence from various Samsung computer users who tried to boot up Linux via UEFI. They could only do it once. Then their laptops froze never to function again.

That sounds drastic and fingers have been pointed in the direction of the Redmond WA gang, but wait. Read the article.
The Ubuntu development team has held talks with Samsung staff, who have identified the kernel's samsung-laptop driver as the prime suspect. This driver has previously had issues – it had caused problems for other Samsung laptop owners when booting Linux using UEFI.
The problem is not UEFI as my reactionary Linux friends would have me believe. It is in fact a bug in the Samsung driver and only under certain circumstances. Why am I not surprised at that?

No doubt the misinformation and outright lies will continue as they do in any political arena. But I am now a little less skeptical knowing how this particular rumor started.

BRICKING SAMSUNG LAPTOPS: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/ ... 93958.html
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Re: UEFI + Linux = Dead Computer

Postby kg » 02 Feb 2013, 13:50


Yes, through independent research, I read about this problem. It's only certain models of Samsung laptops that were affected, and as you (and the articles) said, it was due to a faulty Samsung-supplied drivers.

The reason I did the research is that I'd peripherally heard of the problem, and when answering someone on the Ubuntu Help Forums who had boot problems on their laptop, they stated they had a Samsung laptop. I researched the model of laptop and found that his model didn't have that problem.

While bricking computers isn't the problem with booting Linux under UEFI, there are problems that require rather technical "work-arounds," and as always, there is little interest in changing the UEFI coding to accommodate alternate OSes. While I'm sure that exaggeration will hold sway in the future (as it always has), I find the grousing about the problem justified.

If I buy a computer, I expect to be able to do what I want with it, including installing (an) alternate OS(es) without being forced to "word around" written in problems. Most computer users won't even know or hear of the controversy, and if they do, they won't understand what all the furor is about, unless they decide they want to install Linux at some point in the future.

Instead of grousing, I'll vote with my pocketbook and only buy hardware that accommodates me and my idea of how to use a computer.
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Re: UEFI + Linux = Dead Computer

Postby Yogi » 02 Feb 2013, 15:41

One of the big "problems" with computers is that people expect things from them for which they are not designed. As you know the simplicity of using most modern computers is deceptive. There are some highly complex pieces of hardware and software inside each box. It's up to the user to do the research ahead of time to ascertain if the box they are buying will meet their needs. That's asking a lot for somebody without the background that you or I might have.

The world of computers is highly competitive and wide open to attack from nefarious sources. UEFI is just one scheme that has become necessary to survive in a cut throat hacker populated world. It's a pity that such drastic approaches have become necessary, but that does not mean there is a conspiracy against one OS vs another simply because you lack a full understanding of what is going on. Then again, if people like Samsung can't anticipate problems with their own products, how in Hell am I supposed to know what I'm in for?
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Re: UEFI + Linux = Dead Computer

Postby kg » 03 Feb 2013, 02:27

Yogi wrote:One of the big "problems" with computers is that people expect things from them for which they are not designed. As you know the simplicity of using most modern computers is deceptive. There are some highly complex pieces of hardware and software inside each box.


Yes, there are.

Yogi wrote:It's up to the user to do the research ahead of time to ascertain if the box they are buying will meet their needs. That's asking a lot for somebody without the background that you or I might have.


It's asking a lot for someone with the background you or I might have, if the manufacturers and coders fail to supply the information. My research notwithstanding, if I, as a "researcher of obscure technical data," couldn't find such information until the anecdotal information came out, then the manufacturers/coders have fallen down on the job, in my estimation.

Yogi wrote:The world of computers is highly competitive and wide open to attack from nefarious sources. UEFI is just one scheme that has become necessary to survive in a cut throat hacker populated world. It's a pity that such drastic approaches have become necessary, but that does not mean there is a conspiracy against one OS vs another simply because you lack a full understanding of what is going on.


I agree. "Conspiracy theories" are much too easy to manufacture, but that doesn't ameliorate the manufacturer's negligence of informing and accommodating those who have the knowledge and the desire to install alternative OSes. That smacks of laziness, at the very least!

Yogi wrote:Then again, if people like Samsung can't anticipate problems with their own products, how in Hell am I supposed to know what I'm in for?


You can't, and neither can I. Neither can Microsoft, and neither can the Linux developers, or anyone else. What I'm saying here is that for those of us who are reasonably knowledgeable, UEFI and whatever schemes they come up with in the future, should be made easy to surpass, and the information on how to do so should be made accessible.

If I "brick" my computer, then that's on me, and you won't hear me complain (well, much! :bleh: ), but if I brick my computer because the information (or the option) wasn't available, then "Houston, we have a problem!" I just want the option to "opt out," if I so desire. The vast majority of computer "appliance operators" won't know the difference.
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Re: UEFI + Linux = Dead Computer

Postby Kellemora » 03 Feb 2013, 10:25

I always end up having my computer store BUILD my computers, and it often saves me tons of money.
The problem is, the only one I trust is miles from me, so a few times since moving south, I HAVE bought off the shelf computers.
The advertising on the carton and paperwork available at the stores, not only leave much to be desired, but the majority of them are FRAUDULENT.
The last off the shelf desktop computer I purchased, will probably be the last ever, because when I got it home and went to add the extra hardware, there were no SATA ports available. Standard is 4 on the Mobo! This one CLAIMED on the BOX, 2 SATA ports AVAILABLE. I knew they used 2 already for the DVD and HD. So if 2 were claimed as Available, it should have had the standard 4 ports. There were several other things missing when I opened the case and looked inside. It had only ONE fan, on the CPU, no case fans. Don't remember what all else now. I jotted down the info on the Mobo and looked it up on line. The manufacturer listed the Mobo Number with the words, client custom issue or something to that affect.
Needless to say, I returned it to the store and got my money back.

Normally, when I buy a new built-up computer, I have them give me a new case. Then I will take one of my older computers in to replace something I probably could fix myself. But just got tired of doing things like that. Then after being fixed, I will donate them to someone who is without a computer. Often using one of my older smaller hard drives, more than adequate for most folks.

The last 5 or 6 computers I have bought, the price ranged between 250 and 350 bucks and they compare to ones sold off the shelf, often for near or over a grand.
I will probably be spending close to that on my next built-up computer, because I plan on going hog wild on it, if a computer geek friend of mine can write a few programs I need and teach me how to use and maintain them. He's always writing little snippets of code for me, saying that I should know how to do things so simple. But I never could get my head wrapped around it. He said it is simply because no one ever explained the preliminaries or basics to me. And they are never found in the textbooks or manuals. So, we'll see! Maybe some day, hi hi.....

Asus makes a Mobo that you can turn off UEFI or control it through the bio's to only apply to the Doze and nothing else on a dual boot system. Since I don't have one, don't know how they do that, but it has boosted their sales considerably. User Controlled is their selling point!

TTUL
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