Linux Is Dead

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 22 Jan 2013, 13:41

But it was Windows WHO copied what they do from Linux, NOT the other way around.
Linux had Windows years before Micro$oft did!

Remember, Mickey$oft is who puts FORMATTING Operations under FILE Operations, instead of under Formatting Operations where it belongs. So putting things in the WRONG PLACE is ONLY STANDARD on Windows!

As far as I know, Unity is the only new Desktop that moved the boxes to the left. But YOU CAN choose where you want them. Try that on WinDoze! You can also change Desktops to what you want as well. What do you have with Windows? Current and Classic. What if you don't like either of those?????

Can you put Panels (Systrays in Windows) Top, Bottom or both sides if you want?
Can you add more Desktops? I keep six on most of my machines, four is the default.

When you have a browser open, can you move the Tab Bar up into the same space as the Title Bar, or eliminate the Title Bar and have the controls normally there, drop down to the Tab Bar? I don't think so!

Can you add exclusive desktops and switch to them at the touch of a button?
An exclusive desktop is one where you have it set up for a particular purpose, with all the necessary programs for the job you do appearing on THAT desktop only. For example: If you work with images and videos, can you set up a desktop for when you are doing tasks with those items. Then on another desktop, have it set up with everything you use for working on web sites. And another desktop for when you are doing writing or journalism, or whatever other hobby you may be interested in.

Sure, it takes TIME, to learn all of the different things you can do with Linux. Just as it takes TIME to learn how to use each new program you buy for Windows. But the whole point here is, the features ARE THERE, if you want to use them. A standard Linux install usually only places one Panel at the bottom, like Windows. Or sets up your screen like a Smart Phone, like Unity or even the old MCE editions Media Center desktop window.

When I have to do a project on a Windows machine, TO ME, it's like trying to work with one hand tied behind my back, and wearing a mitten on the free hand. Many more steps to go through to accomplish a simple single task.

The particular desktop I'm on right now, only has the web sites I visit across the Bookmarks Toolbar. Plus some open pages of things I cut n paste to websites daily. I also have several add-on's in the browsers that handle various tasks to make thing easier.

Some people prefer a stick shift, others like an automatic car. Same holds true for Camera's, good photographers need to control their F-stop settings and other features to obtain the desired results. All the rest of the people are still using a Brownie Hawkeye or equivalent.

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 23 Jan 2013, 10:00

I can only add that some people have a legitimate need for complexity and non-standard environments in their computer operating systems. Last time I checked Linux was about 1.2% of all operating systems on the planet. My guess is that only a minority of those users want, or care about, all the esoteric options available to them.
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 23 Jan 2013, 12:26

Regarding that video Pil put up about how the internet works.

Looking at just ONE HUB, are you counting them as only ONE Linux User, OR 126,873 Linux computers clustered?

I toured the St. Louis Hub before moving south. That was over 10 years ago. At that time, they had over 88 thousand rack mounted computers, each one running Linux. Most were Red Hat, but they had several using other Distro's as well.

I wish I knew how to build a cluster, and keep all of my computers in one cabinet.
Well, I could rack mount them, and use them individually as I do now. It would save space, hi hi.....

It's all way over my head! That's for sure!!!!!

Just like where many people work, they use Windows computers on the floor for the employee's to do their work from.
Where my wife works, they have just over 500 Windows 7 Enterprise 32 bit machines on the floor.
But in the back room, the IT cabinets in just that building alone, contain well over 2,000 Linux blade computers.
And this is not one of their main facilities.

One interesting thing to note, is that even though they are Windows computers on the floor. The only thing the people using them see on their screens, are the programs being run on them. They would look the same if they were on any OS. They automatically boot into the companies log-in screen, but once they are logged in, they can use it like a Windows computer and access normal windows programs if installed. However, most of the programs they do run, are server fed, not actually on the computers themselves. Like back when I was using a Cougar Mountain Accounting program and modules.

Still over my head, hi hi.....

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 23 Jan 2013, 13:17

If you have a problem understanding statistics, and most people do, you can get a better feel for what those installed operating system numbers mean in a very real and practical sense. Go to your local Wal Mart, Best Buy, or any other place (except the Apple Store, for obvious reasons) that sells computers. Check out the shelf space dedicated to systems being sold with some Windows product pre-installed. Now check out the shelf space dedicated to products with Linux installed. What you see is not accurate, but it does reflect what is going on in the real world.

All those thousands of Linux servers you have seen are in a highly specialized market niche and a tiny fraction of the whole. The number of servers in this world are dwarfed many times over by the number of desktops, laptops, and mobile devices. The operating system of choice in this larger more generalized market is Microsoft's Windows by a margin of better than 4:1. That margin is decreasing and yielding to mobile platforms which have their own proprietary operating systems installed.
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 24 Jan 2013, 10:30

I agree with you there Yogi! Most retailers only stock the fastest moving items, in almost any department in their store.

Sometimes you luck and find what you went in for. But many items, they only stock for a month or so, then no more. So if you did find an item you liked, and go back for more, they no longer have it.

Stores like Walmart only look at the bottom line, they only give the appearance of trying to appease a customer.

If folks were only a little bit smarter, most of the things sold at Walmart's everyday low price, can be found elsewhere, cheaper, and IN STOCK..... Walmart does have some good deals on a few things, but you have to watch very closely, they are often custom made for Walmart with missing or cheapened components inside.

Apple actually had the right idea, by supplying numerous schools with computers. They were building a user base, familiarity of their computers. Hoping as those student matured and bought their own computers, they would select what they were familiar with. So what happened? When they got out into the real world, they found Mickey$oft dominated the market and they had to change to be compliant with their employers. But what those employers don't tell them, is in the back room, they all run Linux!

Going back a lot of years here, well not all that many years, Windows XP was the new OS on store shelves. But I asked the company who handled our companies payroll about their computer systems. I didn't know diddly about Operating Systems back then either. They invited me for a tour of their facility and I took them up on the offer. Turns out they always had Show-Off Tours, so it was no big deal. However, some of the things they did FOR SHOW, was very interesting. Using the printers in the forms room, they played music, with just the pins hitting the paper. They did the same thing in another room using ink based printers, made it sound like a person whispering to another person, but clear enough you could understand what was being said. We could only look through glass windows at the many computer racks that filled an entire large room. Controlled temperature, no dust, possible static, etc. is why we could only look through the glass.
They talked about their sophisticated programming, links with banks and the government, etc.
Someone in the tour group asked what operating systems they used and why.
Although they said they cater to all operating systems, all data entry was on the new Windows XP platform.
Their mainframe computers used Unix, understandable considering their size.
But they too said the many racks were running Red Hat. (By the way, this is what prompted me to try Red Hat!)
Needless to say, I didn't know Linux was a derivative of Unix, nor did I know Red Hat was Linux, until I bought a copy. Yes bought, Red Hat was not free!
After I had time for all of that to soak in, and after I played with Red Hat, couldn't get it working right either.
One of the men I met, who worked in their IT department, was in our store. While he was waiting for his purchase, I asked what was probably a dumb question at the time. How do you keep everything working using Red Hat. First he said it is much simpler than Unix and they have never had a problem with it. Why don't you use Windows in the back, you use it for data entry, doesn't that cause a problem. He tried to explain that data can be manipulated into any format, but the computer entering the data can actually be anything they chose. Then he explained that servers perform a different function than data entry. Still way over my head the things he said. But when he got to the bottom line, he said licensing cost is the main reason they run Red Hat.
At that time, just the MySQL part of a WAMP server was over Ten Thousand Dollars. LAMP was essentially free and configurable, which is better all around.
Had no idea what any of that meant at the time, but I fully understood the difference between Ten Grand and FREE! Although the actual cost was considerably higher due to servicing and maintenance fees.

I assume the cost of WAMP has come down considerably over the years, my doctors office still had to pay Mickey$oft something like three grand in royalty fees, over and above all the software costs to program vendors. And he is not at all happy how any of it works. Too much extra work now due to new laws they must follow. But that is another story.

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 25 Jan 2013, 09:42

Essentially I worked for only one company all my life, Motorola. You might have heard of them. Motorola was a leading edge mobile communications technology company, and in fact they often developed the state of the art. Among their many firsts was the invention of the device we know as a microprocessor. Apple computer used one of our devices exclusively, and that accounted for much of their lead in their specific niche of handling graphics. Needless to say, it made good business sense for us to go with a major customer's product when it came down to furnishing the corporation with computers. In the beginning, all desktops were Apple computers of one flavor or another.

As time went on Apple realized that Intel was the way to go. Nobody was writing software for the G5 processor, but everyone was developing on Intel chip sets. We lost Apple and then switched over to Windows NT based desktops. We got a sweetheart deal with Microsoft for licensing, but a deliberate decision was made not to go with free (open source) software. Linux was available when we made the switch, but it was considered an immature operating system and lacking the kind of support needed to keep an enterprise going. When money lost is measured in thousands of dollars per minute, or per second in some cases, you don't want to be forced to surf the Internet tech support forums for a possible solution. Red Hat supplied that kind of support, but it was not considered enterprise worthy.

Security is a big deal for companies like Motorola. While no operating system is bullet proof, the holes in anything but UNIX were unacceptable. UNIX servers were the backbone that fed the Windows desktops. That was only in the office areas. The factories, on the other hand, were predominantly dumb terminals hooked up to a UNIX application server. Windows was and is into the server business, and they do the best job of handling domain management for their operating systems. The Windows servers, however, were inevitably connected to some UNIX server before entering the backbone.

Linux was allowed in certain situations where the LAN never saw the external world, for example. We could run a Linux server to keep our office happy, but there was no direct connection to the Internet on such boxes. Linux was never run in a mission critical situation. It was almost exclusively found in certain engineering labs where it could be used to remotely control machines more easily than could anything Windows.

In the wold of computers there is an axiom that states you should use the proper software for the application. In each of my examples above that is exactly what happened. The system that was "best" varied depending on the situation. Licensing costs and the frequency of maintenance are important considerations, as is the level of expertise of the system managers. Unless there are some big changes in the direction taken by Linux developers, I don't see it ever becoming a dominant operating system outside of it's niche applications.
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 25 Jan 2013, 11:44

I love Motorola! And yes, they were always state of the art in everything they did or made.
My dad would never buy any other brand of TV as long as he lived.

I had a job once where a radiotelephone was an absolute must. The company gave me two choices. I took the Motorola!
Back then, it was a box that took up half of your trunk, in a full size car. Sometimes there was a little more static than I desired, however, never a dropped call and never a dead zone as with today's cellular. Employees' that selected the other brand, found them to be horrible most of the time.

Back in the '60s and '70s, every large company I had dealings with, all ran Unix.
I tried using Apple's Lisa System at my business, after using an Apple II+ for a lot of my work. Personal computing was in it's infancy, but Apple could handle whatever we could write to program it to do. The Lisa System came with much of the programming I needed for work, light accounting, billing, inventory, etc. However, the more we moved our work from manual to computers, the more we realized that these early computers were not much more than experimental toys. But they were getting better. Just not fast enough for the way business was evolving into the computer age.

Wang opened a new large facility just down the street. I passed it every day on the way to and from work. I stopped in a few time, but no way could our business afford the cost of a mainframe, much less the climate controlled building it had to be in. A very persistent salesperson stopped to talk to me a few times, each time studying our situation a little closer. She finally came up with a solution we couldn't refuse and priced at less than 1/2 of the computer alone. They took care of modifying a room we had available, they did everything necessary, including wiring and installing the climate control equipment. It wasn't quick, but in the end we had a Wang VS System, and the ongoing work of adding all the modules to send the data we wanted it to have. Heck, just the hard drive was a 3 foot x 3 foot cabinet, with OPEN platter stacks we had to lift out manually and store in a cabinet to do backups. Expensive, Very, but it more than paid for itself in under three years.

As time marched on, we replaced this massive footprint computer with a much smaller Wang OIS system, selling the Wang VS to Tradin' Times newspaper for very close to the price we paid for it. The sale was handled by the same salesperson, so I doubt they know where it came from. The OIS system, besides being much smaller, could do much more. They even gave me a PC that ran the Wang OS for my private use at home. When we closed the business, I brought the OIS system home for a short time, but Wang was closing their facility, so I sold it, since I wouldn't have the support I once had. They converted the PC to Windows for me, don't remember now if it was 3.11 or 95, probably 3.11 as this was in 1983 or '84. I'm getting olde and get time frames messed up quite easily.

Linux is just the Kernel, there are tons of Operating Systems built on it. I think Red Hat was the first to reach Enterprise Status using the Linux kernel. But as you said, the mainframes ran UNIX almost exclusively, and only the control machines used Linux.

One thing Windows did do, was get the desktop off the hobbyists bench and into the mainstream consumers hands.
I preferred my Apple computers over DOS based computers, because they could do so much more, in that early era.
As DOS gained a stronger foothold, and more companies were using it, I was forced to submit my work on DOS readable disks.
There were many things I could do on an Apple that could not be done on the early Windows machines. But they now dominated the market and one just HAD TO SWITCH or lose their clients and customers, it was as simple as that.

As Windows grew and grew, Linux still remained a hobbyists toy that only the geeks could use and understand.
As these geeks matured, and businesses grew, more and more Linux was found in the back rooms, running the servers.
Until today, everywhere except the desktop, Linux is what runs the country and almost every device that contains a computer inside.

TTUL
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