Linux Is Dead

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Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 06 Sep 2012, 06:46

While Linux is not really dead, it has sprawled out horizontally over the spectrum of operating systems with very little progress vertically. In other words, there is seemingly an infinite choice of Linux distributions, each with its own good and bad points. The number of distros available has increased, but the overall market share of Linux has not. Part of the reason for this stagnation has to do with the girth of the Linux world; i.e., too many choices.

One of my favorite retorts to people complaining about technology is, "Change or die." The state of the art in the digital world moves along at lightening speed, and change is a constant. Thus, it's lethal to choose a level of technical comfort and decide to stay there forever. Individual computer users, however, can last a lot longer in the dark ages of last year's advances. But, operating systems such as Linux remain fatally wounded if they do not adapt and grow.

I personally made a small effort to find a way into the Linux world after setting sail off the Microsoft island. Nay, Micorsoft continent. This forum has discussed the relative merits of a few Linux distributions which our members favor, but there is no clear path. There is no single path. There is no leader of the pack onto which software developers and OEMs can attach themselves. Thus all the growth (read that to mean profits) is in developing for Windows, and to a limited extent OSX. I agree with the author of the linked article. A standard bearer is needed before Linux can even think about taking its foot out of the grave it is in.

SAVING LINUX: http://www.lockergnome.com/news/2012/09 ... d-save-it/
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 06 Sep 2012, 12:26

You need to do your homework Yogi - Linux is the most popular OS for EVERYTHING except Desktops!

Don't have time today, I'm running hours late.
It's the OS of choice for Mainframes, websites, most small handheld devices, and nearly everything that uses computer chips for their operation.

You would be hard pressed to find something other than a desktop that does not have Linux as it's main OS!

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 06 Sep 2012, 12:57

Linux, if you include Android, has at best 2% of the market share of all operating systems. Yes, Linux is favored among IT professionals and hackers, but 98% of the world is not in that category.

HOMEWORK: http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market ... px?qprid=9
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 07 Sep 2012, 12:20

Here is a quote from Wikipedia

Linux was originally developed as a free operating system for Intel x86-based personal computers. It has since been ported to more computer hardware platforms than any other operating system.

It is a leading operating system on servers and other big iron systems such as mainframe computers and supercomputers:[13][14][15][16] more than 90% of today's 500 fastest supercomputers run some variant of Linux,[17] including the 10 fastest.[18]

Linux also runs on embedded systems (devices where the operating system is typically built into the firmware and highly tailored to the system) such as mobile phones, tablet computers, network routers, televisions[19][20] and video game consoles; the Android system in wide use on mobile devices is built on the Linux kernel.

And I learned something I didn't know from the GNU/Linux website.

Most of the BIO's residing on Motherboards uses Linux or machine code originally developed on Linux!

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 07 Sep 2012, 12:25

Move DOWN on your HOMEWORK: http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating ... pcustomd=1
You only compared Desktops, not everything. Here is what they report for Mobile Devices, Windows 1%, sad, very sad, for windows that is.
Windows only has ONE market, and that is Desktops, and they are losing ground in that arena very fast!
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 07 Sep 2012, 12:33

I hate to do this, but I just checked the Share Trend at your favorite website, and for everything, excluding desktops, Windows is relegated to the "OTHER" category and not even listed in the named competition.

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 07 Sep 2012, 18:31

Linux certainly does have certain niche markets covered completely. And, I would not be surprised to learn that Windows itself was originally developed using Linux based computers. I fail to see the relevance of that when evaluating current market share of a given product.

Think about it. For every server out there, how many desktops and workstations are there? Approximately 3 billion devices requiring an operating system are in the wild, and I am fairly confident that no more than 2% of them are servers using Linux.

And yes, Windows is losing ground. A full 12% of their former market share now belongs to Apple Computer. The market share of Windows lost to Linux is less than can be calculated accurately.

The writing is on the wall (or Internet chart in this case). Linux has stagnated and is doing little to increase it's total market share. Developers outside the open source community are ignoring it, and that cannot bode well for its future.
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby threenorns » 07 Sep 2012, 23:35

i tried linux.

didn't like it.

didn't like unix, either, come to that.
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 08 Sep 2012, 09:13

Well, if you call most of the Mainframes and the Fastest of the Top End High Speed Massive Server companies a niche market, so be it!

Most people drive cars, not Semi's or Freight Trains. But without them, there would be no cars delivered!

The same holds true for nearly every major industry, including the world wide web.
Most of the Users run Windows. But without those Powerful Linux Driven providers, most services would continually be down with a virus!

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby kg » 12 Sep 2012, 11:13


Just a couple of thoughts, the first of which is not backed by my usual "research of obscure technical data," but just off the top of my head:

Yogi wrote:And, I would not be surprised to learn that Windows itself was originally developed using Linux based computers.


I don't think you would learn that, since Windows predates the Linux kernel. Windows development started in the '80s, and Linus Torvalds didn't develop the Linux kernel until the early '90s. Of course, you might argue that it might have been Unix, but I think you'd still be wrong.

The development of Windows was most likely accomplished using various and sundry compilers...I surmise the most prominent of which would have been C and C++...developed from the DOS platform. Back in the "heady" days of DOS, I had three DOS compilers; MS Quickbasic 4.5, and Borland's Turbo Pascal and Turbo C++. I think that would be a more likely development platform than another OS entirely, which everyone knows that MS eschews.

Kellemora wrote:Most people drive cars, not Semi's or Freight Trains. But without them, there would be no cars delivered!

The same holds true for nearly every major industry, including the world wide web.
Most of the Users run Windows. But without those Powerful Linux Driven providers, most services would continually be down with a virus!


Personally, I agree, and I will further assert that the only reason that Microsoft continues to hold such a huge share of the Desktop market is because there is little end-market support for computers running Linux. It is marketing, and nothing else, that holds Linux to such a small market share.

Most end users wouldn't know the difference between running Linux and Windows if not for that lack of support, because let's face it...the average end user can't maintain a Windows OS any more than they can a Linux OS, not without the support of computer shops, et. al. And the level of support is changing. For instance, in the Gaming arena:

It's clear that Valve isn't happy with Microsoft.

Gabe Newell, Valve co-founder and managing director, labeled Windows 8 "a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space," fearing that the introduction of the Metro user interface and the new Windows Store -- which will be the only place users can buy Metro apps -- will make Windows even more of a closed platform. This, he fears, will have a serious knock-on effect of Valve's business.

Valve's also been busy optimizing its games for Linux, and claims to have Left 4 Dead 2 running faster on Ubuntu than on Windows 7 -- and not just a little faster either: over 16 percent faster. Considering how much time and effort Valve has spent developing for Windows, that's quite an achievement for Linux.

The word now is that Valve's official Linux push will kick off February 2013, and that this is when a beta of the Steam client for Linux will land. Hit titles such as Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, Team Fortress 2, and Half-Life 2 will be available alongside Left 4 Dead 2.

Where's Valve going with Linux?

You're right...the times are a-changin', and there's someone who needs to keep up, alright! :P
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 13 Sep 2012, 12:12

The first OS was developed by Kindall as CP/M.

Kindall had a computer PhD and created the first personal computer operating system, CP/M. His insight was that by creating an operating system separate from the hardware, applications could run on computers that were made by different manufacturers. The CP/M operating system had sold well and IBM, the world’s then biggest computer company was looking for a system for its planned Personal Computer. IBMers visited the 24 year old Bill Gates at Microsoft in August 1980 but Gates was unable to supply them with a system and he directed them to Kindall.

The ORIGINAL NAME for QDOS was "Quick and Dirty Operating System" NOT "Disk Operating System" as so many state!
Disk Drives were not invented yet!

86-DOS was an operating system developed and marketed by Seattle Computer Products (SCP) for its Intel 8086-based computer kit. Initially known as QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System) the name was changed to 86-DOS once SCP started licensing the operating system.
86-DOS had a command structure and application programming interface that imitated that of Digital Research's CP/M operating system, which made it easy to port programs from the latter. The system was purchased by Microsoft and developed further as MS-DOS and PC DOS.

CP/M was by far the most popular operating system in use at the time, and IBM felt it needed CP/M in order to compete.
Microsoft purchased a nonexclusive license for 86-DOS from Seattle Computer Products in December 1980 for $25,000. In May 1981, it hired Tim Paterson to port the system to the IBM PC, which used the slower and less expensive Intel 8088 processor and had its own specific family of peripherals. IBM watched the developments daily, submitted over 300 change requests before it accepted the product and wrote the user manual for it.

In July 1981, a month before the PC's release, Microsoft purchased all rights to 86-DOS from SCP for $50,000. It met IBM's main criteria: it looked like CP/M, and it was easy to adapt existing 8-bit CP/M programs to run under it, notably thanks to the TRANS command which would translate source files from 8080 to 8086 machine instructions. Microsoft licensed 86-DOS to IBM, and it became PC DOS 1.0. This license also permitted Microsoft to sell DOS to other companies, which it did. The deal was spectacularly successful, and SCP later claimed in court that Microsoft had concealed its relationship with IBM in order to purchase the operating system cheaply. SCP ultimately received a 1 million dollar settlement payment.

It was a year before Kindall discovered that his longtime friend Bill Gates had signed the plum deal with IBM and to add insult to injury, it looked that parts of QDOS had been copied from CP/M. Software copyright was in its infancy and rather than take IBM to court, Kindall agreed to license CP/M to IBM. He was shocked when IBM charged $240 per copy for CP/M and only $40 for DOS. The rest is history, which is generally written by the victors.

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 04 Oct 2012, 06:54

This month Ubuntu will release it's latest distribution. I will use the occasion to rebuild the partition structure on my laptop.

And for the Linux enthusiasts who do not feel endangered by low numbers, the September statistics are in. Linux has increased it's market share over the previous month by a whopping 0.05%. It now stands as a 1.10% product. Android, who some think is the same as Linux, also experienced growth but not as much as Linux. Android's share jumped 0.04% to a record 2.00% of the total market for operating systems.

Microsoft is about to release its Windows 8 product and I have not read any projections in that regard. They obviously are targeting the same market as Android and Linux Ubuntu/Unity. The figures at the end of this year should be quite revealing.

THE LATEST: http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market ... px?qprid=9
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 08 Jan 2013, 09:37

Updating the Windows vs Linux war, it looks like it was a wash last year. The numbers for 2012 are in and they show:

    Windows: 83.62% --> 81.55%
    Linux: 1.42% --> 1.27%
Given that Microsoft introduced Windows 8 at exactly the same time their market share fell 1.5% (and has yet to recover), this does not bode well for Microsoft. It's also obvious that the disgruntled Windows people did not embrace Linux at the expense of Windows. This lack of interest is most revealing.

The numbers show mobile OS's on the rise with Apple Computers leading the way in that market. Android seems to be taking a hit to the delight of the Cupertino bit heads.

Somebody has a lot of work to do. :mrgreen:
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 08 Jan 2013, 12:44

According to this website:

http://www.top10gallery.com/2012/02/top ... world.html

Windows only hit two of the top 10 spots of Mobile OS's, 5th and 6th.
While Linux holds five of the top 10 spots, including the #1 spot, thanks to Android.

Those not listed as Linux, still use the Linux kernel or Linux like kernel, including Apple.

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 08 Jan 2013, 13:22

The world is definitely moving in a mobile direction, but as of last month nearly 88% of the installed operating systems were not.
The mobile market shares break down as follows:

[ img ]
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 09 Jan 2013, 11:44

Interesting!
I didn't know Tablets were outselling DumbPhones.
But then too, I have neither, and don't want them.
But it does seem ODD to me, that they are listing companies market share on Tablets, when they don't even make Tablets.
Referring to PALM above. HogPuke (HP) bought out Palm, but to the best of my knowledge, have not offered a Tablet under the Palm name yet. So it only stands to reason that their Tablet sales stand at 0%......

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 09 Jan 2013, 15:05

The chart represents the market share of operating systems installed in mobile devices - tablets are considered to be mobile. It's not a reflection on who owns what, but more of a statement on who is using what.
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 20 Jan 2013, 20:32

<rant>

[ img ] <==Linux -- Windows==> [ img ]

Let's say, for the sake of this rant, that I'm currently a Microsoft Windows user and have become disgruntled with the output from Redmond, Washington. It's given me trouble over the years, and the time has come for me to find an alternative. Linux comes highly recommended by friends who have been using it long term. The argument for Linux seems to be that it's not Windows and it's free. The downside of Linux is ... oddly enough none of my Linux using friends could think of a down side.

OK, so I take the plunge into Linux. It works out of the box, as they said it would. But, as those of you who have read a few of the articles in this forum know, I have had big time issues with Linux after installation. Anyway, I'm evaluating Linux.

Look at the graphics at the top of this post to see what is familiar to any computer users since about 1986. The graphic on the right is what you see in the upper right hand corner of any (with rare exception) window - not to be confused with Windows (upper case W) which is an operating system. We have all been groomed to accept that the '_' is for minimizing the window and tucking it away in the task bar. The square will restore/maximize the window. And, of course, the 'X' will close the window. If you ever used a computer during the last thirty years, you know all this intuitively.

Now, look at the image on the left. It's from the latest release (12.10) of Ubuntu Linux. Actually the distribution doesn't matter for this rant. Nearly every distribution of Linux that I've ever seen is the same. Google's Linux Chrome OS is the exception. Note that the three window controls are on the left side of the window in Linux instead of on the right. Also note the order. The underline and the square are reversed. WTF is that all about? It all works fine, but if you are evaluating Linux to see if you want to use it instead of Microsoft's Windows, you will find this arrangement very irritating. Regardless, it's the default on a new installation of Ubuntu Linux.

Why did the Linux developers do this left handed reverse and mix-up? I don't know what they were thinking, but I can guess. They did it specifically to be different than what Microsoft has set as an industry standard. It serves no useful function to move the windows controls and it does not create an increase in productivity. In fact it's counter intuitive and slows you down if you are a serious computer user.

Well, I've not heard a response from my Linux friends yet, but based on past experience something along the following lines is expected. You have the option to do this kind of crazy mix up in Linux but not in Windows. It's true. The choice to move or delete those controls or to assign different functions to them is possible in Linux - assuming you know how to do that. But, I see no useful purpose to this flip flop.

As a Linux user, you have other options that do not come easily in Microsoft's Wiindows software. The Linux desktop (KDE, GNOME, Cinnamon, Unity, and a million others for which there seems to be no purpose) has themes. You can change themes in Windows too, but in Linux you can also change the icons, the fonts, the widows appearance, AND the all familiar arrow cursor. All these changes are separate and must be installed if you don't like the defaults given to you at installation time. So, if you decide to change your desktop environment, you have to plow through half a dozen unique configuration interfaces to get the look you like. Heaven forbid if you load a GNOME theme into a KDE desktop, and pray to your patron saint that the icon themes are compatible with the windows themes. And get this. All these options that you now have in Linux are in hidden (yes, invisible) directories which you must find in order to install them. And even that assumes you know there are such things as hidden directories.

Well yes, my good friends and supporters of Linux, I now have a trainload of options that those folks over at Microsoft never thought of giving to their cash customers. Actually, I happen to know they DID think about it and decided against it. They knew your average computer user would not want to spend half their time trying to set up a pretty looking computer desktop. And they also knew those same users would not have a clue about how to back out of any mistakes they made in the process. Microsoft deliberately simplified things in Windows. It's known as the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) principle.

The Open Source community of developers behind Linux obviously choose not to follow KISS, but instead abide by the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome. If they didn't think of it, they don't want to write software that has it, regardless of how much sense it makes to follow the standards set by a monopolist megalith of computer operating systems.

No, Linux is not dead in the water, but it surely isn't going to gain any fans by adding degrees of complexity to their products.

</rant>
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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Kellemora » 21 Jan 2013, 11:52

It appears to me that you looking at the Unity desktop. I am running Ubuntu 8.04, 10.04, 12.04, Debian 6 and Mint 13 and EVERY screen has the boxes on the RIGHT an in the same order as they appear on a Windows computer. The Dash, the Boxes and then the X to the far right.

That's the BEAUTY of Linux! If you don't like the way the base Distro places things, you CAN move them around to where YOU THE USER want them to be.
Linux is not meant to emulate Windows! Nor many of the highly illogical things Windows Programs does.

Linux users can go to Synaptic Package Manager and SELECT any one of over 50,000 free programs, pre-packaged for their distro.
If they don't like the Desktop provided in the main Distro, Linux users have a CHOICE of SEVERAL. Windows users have ONE CHOICE ONLY!

One cannot fit the entire Library of Congress in their computer. Windows makes certain selections for you, often without OPTIONS, and you are stuck with them. In Linux, if you don't like the ones installed with the system, or the optional selections in the Distro, you CAN go to a PPA and select from millions.

Windows comes with IE, it's embedded into the OS, so you can't truly get RID of it if you wanted to.
You CAN download something else, like Firefox, Google Chrome and a few others. But you cannot remove IE.....
In Linux, you have a much greater choice of browsers. Not that all are that great, but at least you have a larger choice.

Car Manufacturers have done what Windows has done, taken CHOICE away from the Consumer!
Oh, they give a few optional accessories you can order; but you cannot define which components as you could as in years past.

At one time, I could go into a dealer and say I want sports car with a 455 Hardin Marine Engine, Muncie 2x2 Nylon gearbox, Schaefer Rev-Lox clutch, Hurst Shifter, 4:11 gears in the rear end, with Posi-Traction and Variable Ratio Power Steering, for under 5 thousand bucks. And they would say GREAT, we can have that delivered to you in 3 weeks.

Today, they will say, we only have a front wheel drive (if they even mention that defect) 4 or 6 cylinder (in the front sideways) that comes in white, blue, red and green, 2-door with sunroof, but it gets 38 miles per gallon and all that for ONLY 49 thousand dollars. We have this and this lighting package, and a free air-conditioner. Sorry, no leg or trunk room, and no real spare tire.

Windows is for those who don't want to make their own choices and are happy with what they are spoon fed. Which is most of the population!

FWIW Yogi, have a non-computer guru, try to install Windows from scratch onto a blank hard drive.
Most folks who buy off the shelf computers, have no idea how to install an OS onto a computer.
And honestly, Windows is one of the harder OS's for someone not skilled in doing so, to get right.

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Re: Linux Is Dead

Postby Yogi » 22 Jan 2013, 12:21

Kellemora wrote:It appears to me that you looking at the Unity desktop. I am running Ubuntu 8.04, 10.04, 12.04, Debian 6 and Mint 13 and EVERY screen has the boxes on the RIGHT an in the same order as they appear on a Windows computer. The Dash, the Boxes and then the X to the far right.

That's the BEAUTY of Linux! If you don't like the way the base Distro places things, you CAN move them around to where YOU THE USER want them to be.


One man's vision of beauty is another man's vision of overwhelming complexity and a lack of standards. :roll:
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