polygamy

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polygamy

Postby pilvikki » 24 Nov 2011, 07:24


no more marrying children in BC:

about bloody time!
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Re: polygamy

Postby Ice.Maiden » 24 Nov 2011, 19:12

I agree, although I suppose it'll outrage certain groups, who see it as their "right" to take child brides - and sometimes more than one.
Hundreds of years ago, it might've made sense, especially when choosing a young girl, who could provide more children. These days, it seems abusive, and IS abusive.
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Re: polygamy

Postby Yogi » 29 Nov 2011, 16:33

John Ince of the Canadian Polyamory Advocacy Association, also an intervener in the case, said he was pleased with the judge's finding that a polyamorous relationship involving consenting adults should not be considered a criminal act if the adults are not married.


Unless I'm reading this wrong, the hypocrisy in that logic is stunning. Canada and BC argued and won in court that married polygamists cause "harm" to the children, and thus an abridgment of human rights is justified. But it is not criminal (and presumably not harmful) if the adults are not married.
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Re: polygamy

Postby kg » 29 Nov 2011, 23:19


To me, the whole concept of outlawing polygamy is ludicrous. I understand the underlying reasoning...because of the tendency of such groups to marry very young girls...but aren't there already laws against that? Is marrying such a young girl in a monogamous marriage OK, then?

To me, such laws belong in a Theocracy, where the country unabashedly legislates its majority religious belief. Of course, I realize that is Canada, and not the U.S. It is directly written into our Constitution's First Amendment that "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of Religion." To me, that includes making laws regarding the freedom of two (or more) adults to engage in any relationship they wish with each other, as long as all parties agree and no one is forced.

Such legislation enforces upon all the desires of a few (or even a majority) and infringes upon other's rights to live as they will, as long as they harm no one else or infringes on their rights. I agree with the child issue...that should be strictly taboo, and I'm sure there are and already were laws regarding that. Enforce those laws!

As an aside, I was amazed that Canada still allowed Polygamy. The States "eliminated" it years ago, when the last holdout (Utah) decided that joining the Union was important enough that the Mormons got "a message from God" that Polygamy wasn't OK after all. Of course, there are still holdout sects that practice it, but it's illegal.
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Re: polygamy

Postby Ice.Maiden » 30 Nov 2011, 15:18

In the UK, if Muslims, for example, have taken more than one wife whilst abroad, then we recognise the polygamous marriage, but it isn't allowed to take place here.
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Re: polygamy

Postby pilvikki » 01 Dec 2011, 21:33


i cannot for my life grasp the whole "law" thing here: you cannot marry children, fine, you'd ALMOST consider that common sense, if there were any such thing, but what kind of doubletalk is it to allow people to live in a union as long as it's not called marriage? i mean, what? that's legal and ok then?

it is ok, or it isn't. and if it's ok, why isn't legally ok?

as for the UK law, there we go again: it either is or isn't legal; it can't be both! why can't an englishman have 3 wives, if his muslim neighbour brought along 4?

personally i think you can have as many adult husbands and/or wives as you can handle... it's none of my business...
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Re: polygamy

Postby Ice.Maiden » 02 Dec 2011, 19:53

Yes, people over here've offered the same question. Why is it OK for a Muslim man to bring back 2 brides and be accepted, yet people in the UK can't have 2 wives.

It all boils down to religion again really, doesn't it? We're not a Muslim country, so if one can't do it, then no one else should be allowed to live like it.
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Re: polygamy

Postby pilvikki » 03 Dec 2011, 17:39


in fact, you are a very non-muslim country, considering your head of state is also the head of the church...

did anyone ask her about it? :roll:
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Re: polygamy

Postby kg » 03 Dec 2011, 18:10

pilvikki wrote:

in fact, you are a very non-muslim country, considering your head of state is also the head of the church...


Well, the titular head...in both cases.
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Re: polygamy

Postby pilvikki » 03 Dec 2011, 21:41


true enough. unlike in good ol' henry's days. :lol:
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Re: polygamy

Postby Ice.Maiden » 04 Dec 2011, 13:07

Yes, but he went with the wind, depending on who he wanted to marry. He was a devout Catholic, but when he was refused permission to divorce Catherine of Aragon, he declared himself head of the Church of England.
It was lousy for ordinary people during Tudor times. They were told when they had to change their religions, and how and when to worship. : (
No mention of Islam in those days though.
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Re: polygamy

Postby pilvikki » 06 Dec 2011, 16:41

    i'm thinking islam was the only thing they managed agree about...
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    Re: polygamy

    Postby Ice.Maiden » 06 Dec 2011, 16:46

    :lol: Probably, although I doubt that people in general were aware of the various religions from around the world.
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    Re: polygamy

    Postby pilvikki » 06 Dec 2011, 17:03


    if i recall correctly, there was a big time battle in poitiers, france, in 732, which stopped the advance of the muslims into europe from spain. so i think they might have been aware of it?

    or not.

    :shrug:
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    Re: polygamy

    Postby Ice.Maiden » 06 Dec 2011, 17:34

    Blimey - that's a new one to me! Thanks for that. Do you think that ordinary people in those days really understood what Muslims believed in though? I mean, Muhammed'd only been dead by about 100 years at that stage. I'd have thought they'd have just thought it was another invasion by foreigners.
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    Re: polygamy

    Postby pilvikki » 07 Dec 2011, 01:58


    well, :think: sod, you're making me look it up now!

    sheesh.

    never mind... forgot... too late now. manana...
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    Re: polygamy

    Postby Yogi » 07 Dec 2011, 09:33

    This whole issue is one of moral vs ethics. Morality is personal and ethics is social, both aimed at encouraging what is best for the individual or group. But, what is perfectly moral for one person can be a sin for another, thus the question of ethics arises. So which takes precedence? Should individual rights be honored above social rights or should individuals suffer loss of freedom for the good of the whole? I guess we know where the Canadian legislators stand.
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    Re: polygamy

    Postby pilvikki » 07 Dec 2011, 23:20


    Should individual rights be honored above social rights or should individuals suffer loss of freedom for the good of the whole?


    after thinking about this, i find it impossible to decide what is right and what is wrong. [ok, TOTALLY leaving out any kids, of course, anyone marrying a child should be behind bars.]

    when it comes to adults, the same rules apply for monogamous as for the poly variety; why do we need a law to state that they can't marry, because there may be abuse in the relationship? surprisingly, there are abuse cases in your 'normal' marriages just the same.

    how do they deal with? well, they either do or they don't, what's the difference?
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    Re: polygamy

    Postby Ice.Maiden » 08 Dec 2011, 04:20

    Yes but there's a difference between abusing a child and an adult, even though abuse to either is unacceptable.

    Sexual abuse of a minor can not only hurt them mentally and physically, but it's known in India that young brides often contract cancer and other diseases, from where they become internally torn by early sexual intercourse.
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    Re: polygamy

    Postby pilvikki » 08 Dec 2011, 08:22


    that's why specifically excluded kids from my comments.
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