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Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 14 Jun 2013, 14:34
by Ice.Maiden
I agree Gary, but then, without you pay vast amounts of money, nothing's built to last any more. Washing machines and fridges tend to have a life of around 4 years - just after the extended guarantee's run out! Gone are the days when one'd last families for 20-25 years, because the manufacturers wouldn't be making any profit and shops wouldn't be selling the things. The more you pay for an item, on average, the longer it lasts, and that goes for cars as well, although it doesn't follow in every case.

I like German-manufactured Miele products. If, as an example, I'd paid £1200 for my last washing machine, I could've got one with the same wash-load capacity, with the same functions, for less than half that, but the cheaper ones've never lasted me. I also like Zanussi and top-range Bosch items. They're more expensive than a lot of the others, but they've all been problem-free and do the job they said they would. One of these products'll last me 2 or 3 times longer than a less expensive thing would.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 00:30
by kg

You hit a bit of a nerve with this post, meaning, I agree with you.

Kellemora wrote:It's just not that they are as skilled as they once were.
Or perhaps I should word it this way, cars change faster than they can keep up with the technology.

Amen to that, and it's not just the automotive field! That's applicable across a wide range of fields.

Kellemora wrote:The '97 Blazer I just put over eight thousand dollars in repairs to, they came and picked up yesterday.
I had an appointment and ran two batteries down trying to get it started.

Once you get it running, it runs A-OK, but I will bet you dollars to donuts, they will call and tell me it needs a new fuel pump.

Can't argue with that.

Kellemora wrote:On this model, the fuel sending unit and fuel pump are inside the gas tank, which means a MINIMUM 600 dollar charge.

I think the fuel pump is inside the gas tank on most of the newer models. It went out on the '95 Chevy Lumina I owned (a legitimate diagnosis, fixed the problem and I had no further of that problem afterward).

Kellemora wrote:They will replace that, I'm almost certain of it, THEN when it don't start the next time, they will replace the computer.
Which isn't it either, so they will then say it's fuel injection system, etc.

In other words, they just don't anymore WHAT IT IS that went wrong. So they start replacing parts.
I figure it will take another 1,500 bucks before they figure it out, and I will have close to 10 grand in repairs.

That's the new method of diagnosis. It's called, "rip out and replace."

Kellemora wrote:In the old days, if something went wrong, you knew almost exactly what it was.
They didn't have all kinds of other parts that would give the same symptoms.

If a car didn't start, you checked the fuel filter. The float bowl (needle and seat), the fuel pump, which was a cheap part in many cases.
Now they have all these sensors and computers, more often than not, it is the sensor itself that went bad, not the part itself.

Can ya say, HalleLUja?!! I shudder when I open the hood just to check the oil! :???:

Kellemora wrote:My old 1966 and '67 pickup trucks, used by about 8 different drivers, each got over 215 thousand miles, one had 235 thousand miles. And we NEVER had a major component failure. Just the normal stuff one expects to wear out.

All the bragging about how well these 4.3 liter V-6's are. We have never had one make it to 100k miles yet.
And the transmissions go out between 85k and 125k miles.

Well, I can't quite say that. My Lumina made it to 175k, and it was the transmission that went out in the end. The motor was still running strong, with nothing but routine maintenance and minor problems. My present car, a Pontiac Vibe, is a little over 101k and still running very strong. The vibe is a '4', but the Lumina was a V-6. I'm convinced that the only reason the Lumina gave up the ghost is that I had a minor fender bender (I hairlipped it running into the back of a pickup), which caused the transmission to go out of alignment (front wheel drive).

Kellemora wrote:Yet they try to tell us the cars run longer and last longer.
Then why does a 3 thousand dollar car, outlast a 35 thousand dollar car, hands down, every time?

I don't know about your experience, but I've found they actually do. Yes, you have to shift (maintenance) registers, and you can't do much of the work you used to do as a matter of course, but I've found most of the recent cars I've owned have outlasted some of the earlier ones.

Like you, I used to 'mechanic' many of my own included. I used to own a '64 Chevy truck that I loved. I could climb into the motor well with that little slant 6 and do almost anything to it. Nowadays, you're lucky if you can change the spark plugs without pulling the engine! But as long as the computer works right, it has such a tight control on engine operation that the engines and transmissions will last far beyond previous life expectancies.

Oh, I agree with's cars are far too complex, and maintenance is far too expensive! And indeed...repairmen are hard put to keep up with the technology. But if you restrain yourself, do the homework, and don't buy every new "gee-gaw" that comes down the road, a new car will last quite a few miles as long as you keep up with it. While you can no longer "do the wrenching" yourself, you still need to keep up with your specific car and learn it.

Oh yes...and find yourself a good mechanic! I still think that, if I hadn't had that accident, the Lumina would have lasted well into the 200k range...I really loved that car!

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 14:55
by Kellemora
Hi Icey

When my late wife and I (before she was late of course, hi hi) built our new kitchen, we went with one of the three top-of-the-line appliance companies. We were sorta limited, because many of them did not make what we wanted. We chose Thermador.
Every single item we bought from them was worse than the lowest discount brand Roper appliances. Besides costing a fortune, not one item worked the way they claimed, the char-broiler didn't even come close to proper functioning. The dishwasher broke every 30 days or less. And we replaced the elements in the oven three times over the course of two years.
I replaced the dishwasher with a Hobart Commercial Unit. Never gave us a single problem. I replaced the Cooktop with a Dacor, because it did what I wanted to and worked properly. The charbroiler unit maintained 350 degrees one inch above the grate, as it should on high. The Thermador couldn't even break 180 degrees. I went with an Amana Oven, no problems.
Right before we sold my house, we replaced the dishwasher with an Amana, because we had an offer for the commercial dishwasher almost equivalent to what we paid for it.

Down here in Knoxville, when we redid our kitchen, because I have had excellent luck with LG electronics. We went with LG for everything in our kitchen. Washer, Dryer, Range, Fridge and Microwave.
The Washer is now one year old and they parts to repair it still have not come in. It is also of VERY POOR Design.
The Dishwasher was internally damaged, took 3 months waiting for parts for it.
The Range was replaced FIVE TIMES, and they refuse to replace it again.
The Fridge is the worst design I have ever seen. They changed so many things in it, all for the worst, it's pitiful.
Most of the computerized functions are faulty and/or have no logic to them.
The Dryer they had to reprogram twice and we are still waiting for parts for it now, for over a year.

Sadly, it's not just them, as pointed out, I think by Glenn, nobody makes anything worth anything anymore.

I used to own 21 rental house and a 23 unit apartment complex.
I used ALL Roper appliances. Bottom of the line, cheapest available.
We NEVER ever ever had a problem with a Roper appliance.
The Fridge I bought before the LG was a Roper. It's in the garage for extra storage.
One of the BEST DESIGNED refrigerators I've ever seen.

So I no longer agree with you get what you pay for.
A high price don't mean they built any quality into it.
It only means they charge a high price for it.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 15:09
by Kellemora
Hi Glenn

I bought the '97 Blazer new, custom ordered with every gewgaw I wanted on it, hi hi.
All of these extra's kicked the price up considerably.

I liked it so well, that I went back to buy a second one in 1999.
NONE of the features I considered MUST HAVES were available anymore.
So I began checking for another used '97, that had the features mine had.
At first, I checked perhaps about 20 used car dealers, every month.
Many took my name and would call me if one that met my specs came in.
I would remind each of them, about every six months, and when they were approaching five years old, I began checking hot and heavy. They knew I was willing to pay Red Book prices to get one. Several even went through their car networks trying to find one for me. El Zippo, those who did have ones like mine, wouldn't part with them. And of course, I didn't want one that was wrecked and rebuilt. But that was all they could find that came even close.

I have no idea why Chevy quit making them that way in 1997. Seems to me they probably lost a lot of sales.
Or maybe it was because of the exorbitant price they get for cars now.
At one time, I always paid sometimes up to triple the price of a car to get what I wanted.
EG: My '76 TransAm, you could buy one off any showroom floor for around 5 grand. Fully loaded.
I wanted a specific design, with specific equipment installed. It cost me 16 grand by the time they built it for me.
Even my '97 Blazer, most were around 18 to 22 grand, mine was 36 grand.
MORE than I paid for my Middle-Class home in Creve Coeur, MO. Of course I got a deal on the home. It was worth 100k at the time, 175k when I sold it.
Now that I'm retired, I just don't have that kind of money to waste on cars anymore.
It makes more sense to keep mine running the way I like it.
But I don't like getting ripped off either.

I think you already know I won't buy a front wheel drive anything.


Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 16 Jun 2013, 08:45
by Ice.Maiden
So I no longer agree with you get what you pay for.
A high price don't mean they built any quality into it.
It only means they charge a high price for it.

Hi Gary,

I agree, it doesn't always follow that the more expensive stuff's the best. Yes, you often DO pay for the name, and yet if that name has an excellent reputation, and it justifies the cost, I think it's worth splashing out on, so that you're not forever having to replace something, which, over several years can add up to more than what you might've forked out in the first place. I want items which're going to do a good job, and which are going to stand the test of time, although it's rare to find anything which lasts as long as it might once've done. As we've said before, if things were made to last for 25 years these days, the manufacturers'd go out of business! Then again, you DO get some items which're crafted well, and which have individually-made components, such as Bang & Olufsen TVS and other stuff they produce.

Hi Glenn,

I agree with both you and Gary about new cars, which're mostly -over-priced and full of gadgets which become obsolete within a year. I've never owned a brand new car, and it doesn't bother me at all, but sometimes, a superb-looking one comes out, and I have to admit, I've thought ..... yessss!! Haven't bought one though. :(

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 16 Jun 2013, 10:17
by Kellemora
I'm almost afraid to say this, because if MURPHY is listening in, it WILL DIE.....

When I built my office up here in the garage, I found a new AC Unit on sale for 99 bucks.
Unlike most window AC's, this one flush mounts in a wall. Has a remote control, and an easy to clean filter.
I've had to clean the outside coils several times, as expected. But it is now over 10 years old and still works perfectly.

It does have one major flaw. It is computer controlled, so if the electric goes out, it does not restart when the electric comes back on again. A lot of electric heaters are made that way now too. And when you do turn it on, it resets to it's default settings. So, if at all possible, I try to avoid units that have this type of system in them.
But the AC, considering it is up near the ceiling near a corner of the room. Having the remote is great.

I just don't understand why the makers of appliances and the like, that use computer systems, don't use RAM memory so all the settings are not lost. All of our expensive new appliances reset to factory default, or flash PF on their screens. Even our fridge has four or five settings we have to reprogram every time our electric goes out. And with out lousy electric company, it is quite frequent. The engineers and designers who built these LG appliances, must not have their GED from high school, as horrible as the appliances bearing their LG logo are. Anyone with half a brain or even the slightest bit of common sense, would not have done to these appliances what they have done to them. Stupidity reigned supreme in the design phase, every step of the way.

I thought I spent a lot of mony on getting my cars back to like new.
Was talking to a fellow on another group who rather than restoring a vintage vehicle to keep it a classic.
He wanted it to be like a modern vehicle. Or so he said.
What it turned out to be was simply. The car he did so much work to, new engine, tranny, etc. was broadsided and totaled.
He hunted around for another car, one with a frame under it, that used this same engine and transmission. And one that most of the appointments (features) could easily be converted to fit into it.

When I was younger, I did some of that myself. However, I had to keep a list of what make and model parts were used here and there, as I could never go by the body I used on the shortened truck frame. It was funny to pull up at a parts store, and tell them I needed a set of rear wheel bearings for a Ford dump truck, or a set of upper ball joints for a Chevrolet Apache van. And they were all going into that '67 Camaro. They had to list the car they were going into for parts warranty reasons. You should have seen some of the looks I got from desk clerks, hi hi.....

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 16 Jun 2013, 15:21
by kg

Kellemora wrote:I just don't understand why the makers of appliances and the like, that use computer systems, don't use RAM memory so all the settings are not lost.

I assume you meant to say EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory). When the power goes out, anything that is in RAM (Random Access Memory) goes out with it.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 17 Jun 2013, 12:28
by Kellemora
You got me on that one. I meant to say ROM, but that wouldn't save settings would it.

However, RAM can be held using a battery to prevent loss of data.

My cheap $5.99 bedroom clock, electric, doesn't go back to flashing 12:00 after the electric goes out.
It uses a hearing aid type battery to hold it's memory. As do my programmable telephones.

Regardless, at the price they charged me for these appliances, they should at least not reset.
They do store my programming at the company. I make a telephone call, using a cell phone, then hold the phone up next to the appliances and they do a diagnostic and then reload the stored program. Often this takes two or three tries.

We laugh about it, wondering if our fridge is connecting to Farcebook to let everyone know how many times we open the door. Or how many times we run the washer or dryer.


Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 23 Jun 2013, 12:57
by Ice.Maiden
*Farcebook!! :lol: