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Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 03 Jun 2013, 12:48
by Ice.Maiden
Precisely. We need to leave pictures against objects, with obvious uses. It'd be no good leaving a circuit board without any detail of what it's used for, or HOW to use it, and the gold record - yes! Waste of time.

An alien being could be so far advanced, that OUR scientific methods'd be archaic to them or even forgotten. Then again, as you rightly say, their entire system of physics and science might be incomprehensible to man, so as far as I can see, only drawings and photos of objects - along with the objects themselves - could really give a clue - but even then, aliens might never've used the sort of tools/implements that we do, so it STILL might all seem like a huge puzzle to them.

We tend to think of alien life forms as being able to walk upright like ourselves, and to have the organs which allow them sight, breathing and hearing, but they might be made up in a totally different way to us - or in a way which we can't comprehend at all.

This's why I think that space and inter-planetary travel's going to be fun, educational and incredible. I just hope that if and when we bump into something which has intelligence, we don't try to destroy it - or them do it to us.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 04 Jun 2013, 09:16
by Kellemora
At one time, I used to read way to much SciFi stuff.
But then when I begin reading REAL Scientific Magazines, showing some of the things we have learned, sometimes it sounds almost like SciFi, hi hi.....

A great number of years ago, when things like holograms were first shown, usually in green, I though about things such might be useful for. Then as we developed lasers, my head got to clicking again. I visualized true 3D Television as being the market that would generate the most income for these companies with that technology.

However, rather than going that route, they are using the technology to create replacement bones for our bodies, making models of objects, all done in a liquid bath of the necessary ingredients.

I truly thought that within only a few years after that, non-invasive surgery and or treatment of cancer cells, would be handled totally by cross-laser technology. I was surprised to find that they are not even considering it. Lasers in the medical field yes, but not cross-laser technology, as would be used to show a 3D image or create an object in glass or plastic.

To make this very simple to understand, a non-harmful beam of light from a laser is passed through the body, not much different than an X-ray, some hazard from X-ray though, due to the radiation.
A second non-harmful laser is passed through the body from another angle.
Where these two laser beams cross, forming a pinpoint smaller than or the size of a cell. At that point only do they produce enough heat to destroy that single cell. Or it could be adjusted to a wider beam, taking out several cells in a specific area.
The dead cells would then be absorbed by our body as they decay. Cancer would be cured or treated without side effects.

Using multiple lasers instead of camera's to record images, by placing them all the way around an object.
Let's start over. Think camera. They could place camera's in all eight corners of a box, plus all six center points. Think of a movie set as being inside of a big square box.

Now, visualize a TV that is made like a glass ball, perhaps flat on the back to hold the electronics and the lasers.
Even though the camera in dead center front, was in the front in the studio. Since the projection is cross-beam laser, the actual projector can be in the back of the ball but still project its dot in the front.

What you currently see on a TV screen is a series of dots, placed so rapidly that your eye sees them as whole picture.
They are projected on your TV screen ONE dot at a time, in a line across the screen, then moves down a line and projects the next row of dots.

Using cross-laser image projection, rather than projecting these dots onto a flat screen, the dots will appear wherever the laser beams cross each other, forming a dot in mid air. Thus, an entire solid object can be presented before you, and you can walk around your TV and see the sides of the object, etc.
In your living room, sitting in a chair to the left side of the TV, vs someone in the same room sitting on the right side of the TV, each of you would see a different angle of the same image, just like being in a live theater.
If you got up and walked to the kitchen, it would be the same as walking to the front of the theater to the side of the stage.
We do have the technology to do this, and have had it now for well over 25 years.

Which is one of the reasons I keep complaining about people calling 2D flat images on a screen 3D.
What will they call REAL 3D when it becomes available?
Even though they can project offset images to give a fake illusion of partial 3D, it is still only a 2D image you are looking at.

How I got off on that tangent, I don't know?

If we study some of our own animals and/or insects, we just might get a glimpse of what some possible alien life forms may possibly be like. Only developed with higher brain capacities.

Most of our animals are like programmed robots. They run on instinct and preservation. Some work in colonies, like ants or bees. But what if, take the ant for example, they were not programmed for a specific job, but could chose which job they preferred, and some could work their way up to queen bee level.
As their intelligence advanced, perhaps we may find ant hills with halls decorated with paintings, ornate carvings on doorposts, etc. They may even begin making tools, a better way to bore tunnels, faster. Flood control during rain, etc.
Hey, if you study some ant hills, a few do take into consideration heavy rains and have water channeling tunnels to keep their residential areas from flooding.

Just food for thought is all.


Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 04 Jun 2013, 15:23
by Ice.Maiden
Hello Gary - and very interesting as usual.

First of all, I see your reasoning with using lasers to kill off cancer cells. Already, photodynamic or targeted light therapy's being adapted for cancer surgery, and it won't be invasive like a lot of the treatment is right now. However, I think we're talking about actual tumours here, not so much at single-cell level, which's where we need to develop the technology, to prevent the cells from multiplying and forming into clusters, or tumours, in the first place.

The trouble with cancer, is that there's always a catalyst, and this's why genetic modification may be important. I have a relative who's working on this sort of stuff right now, and the future's looking exciting. It's one thing to perform surgery to get rid of a malignant tumour, but another to prevent it from reforming elsewhere. The release of certain hormones, for example, can play a big part in whether cells are going to mutate into bad ones, and any number of factors can start them off, so it's not just a case of removing the cancer once it's there, but in changing the "bed" in which they lie, so that they won't grow in the first place. There's a lot of research going on into this, and because individuals are so diverse, you can imagine the magnitude of the job. So yes, your idea of using light (lasers) is already being put to use, but won't prevent further cells from spawning anywhere else in the body, so scientists are trying to figure out ways of altering or removing the genes which're responsible for helping with the mutation. Then, of course, what we put into out bodies isn't helping either, so I think it'll be a long road before anyone develops a way of total eradication.

As for genuine 3D images on a TV, I'm not so sure as I'd want to see that. It's bad enough when we see pictures from war zones on our screens, but it'd seem even more horrendous if everything looked like it was happening smack in front of you.

As for animals/insects etc., well yes. Everything's programmed to do a specific job, even though they might not be conscious of it, but I don't think it makes them any less intelligent than we are. They just survive on a different level. Man's learnt to use his brain and to develop it, but in the insect world, amazing though many of them are, their brains or senses are only geared for what they need. Maybe in a few million years time, the insects we know now'll be hanging paintings on the walls of their homes - just as man does, only we've evolved more swiftly - or have we?

It's strange, don't you think, how our earth's inhabited by thousands of species, and yet only human beings've developed their brains to think in the way that we do? Insects can be industrious, and they all communicate with their own in their own ways, but man's been set apart from these life forms, and he's able to use and study these other things.

We see apes who're able to perform tasks which humans set them; we see chimps in the wild using tools to get their food; we also see ants building bridges with their own bodies, so that their colonies can access the places they need to get to. Each and every living thing is unique and wonderful in its own way, but it's only man who hasn't the sense to understand what he's destroying.

Whether it's God or nature who put us here, at the moment there's only man who's developed enough to change what he's created himself. All other creatures go by instinct - or programme - to survive, but they're still clever in their respective ways, and we shouldn't think of ourselves as any better, simply because we're able to communicate and make debatable decisions. Man only survives because of these "lesser" life forms. Without plants, marine life, insects, animals, birds and reptiles, we wouldn't be here, because each one provides part of the food chain.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 05 Jun 2013, 12:52
by Kellemora
On Cancer: I think there must be four or five things that MUST exist for someone to get cancer. I don't think it can be linked to any single item at all. Which is what they seem to try to do with things they want to ban or tax heavily.
It could be something hereditary, combined with stress, combined with smoking, combined with work environment, that will trigger cancer in an individual.
If smoking was the primary source of cancer, then explain why the majority of the population who were raised smoking, around smokers and were still smoking, have lived as long or longer than non-smokers. Why are there so many centenarians who smoked their whole life? The answer is simple. Smoking is only ONE of the MANY KEYS required to trigger it.
If a person avoids all the other keys, the chances of getting cancer are nil.
Those non-smokers who have cancer, they blame on second hand smoke. What about the trillions who did not get cancer that spent their lives in smoke filled factories?
Don't know if you remember Barbara, my fiance that died, leaving me with her three children to raise.
One of her ailments was Black Lung Disease. Where did she get it? She was little Suzie homemaker. She never worked outside the home, and no one ever smoked in her home. Due to her husbands long hours, he worked in management at a hospital, they rarely if ever went out to nightclubs or to parties. As she put it, she was trapped inside their four walls for most of her life, they never went anywhere or did anything, unless it was a social gathering associated with his work. Which usually meant it was held at the hospital.
Every time she went to the doctor about something, they told her she HAD to quit smoking. Even though they knew she never had a cigarette in her entire life. Doesn't give much credence to the doctors she used, does it.

Love your analogy about the ants, I have seen the same thing. We use a deadly white lithium grease, forming three rings on the poles our hummingbird feeders are mounted on, to prevent the ants from swarming the feeders.
As you said, they will sacrifice several of themselves to form a bridge across the rings of grease. And the feeders still get covered in ants. I often follow and watch the big fuzzy red ants. I think they are the cutest things ever. I've tried tape recording the sounds they make. It's just like the commander is passing out orders to a group, then they all take off to do whatever it was he told them to do. Amazing little critters.

Yes, man has been given amazing mental abilities over the beasts, fowl and creatures that inhabit earth. Although we know apes use a form of a tool, actually, there are many animals and insects that do the same thing. It's just that we don't look at it that way, and consider it being an inborn trait they were preprogrammed with.
This technically is only partially true. A bagworm forms a bag, a moth a cocoon, etc. which is a natural instruction.
But now lets consider the birds of the air. Many species, although from the same genera, build totally different nests.
Some species are not that old either. Birds introduced to different lands from other continents, whether by man or on an iceberg that broke and floated away, carrying them to another strange land to them.
Most died of course, but those that didn't, mated with a similar species.
So similar in fact, that their nest building was almost identical, in their own home lands.
However, the offspring of these two parents suddenly have a considerably different nest design. Often using materials quite unlike the materials their parents may have used.
Built in instruction set gone haywire due to the cross?
Or did the next generation adapt to an environment that is strange to them, based on their previous instruction set?

I forget which college it was now, but one of the big scientific colleges had studied various insects for years, purposely crossing species through hybridization, because they couldn't cross directly. Their goal was to eventually see what happens if they crossed a paper (pulp) nest builder, with a mud nest builder. They eventually extended these tests to include boring insects, who made nests by chewing away wood to form a hole. Such as a carpenter bee.
I don't know the results of the latter as it was still ongoing the last time I studied same.
But on the work they had been doing for many years. Pulp nest builders added mud. Mud nest builders lined their nests with pulp. Some even began making strands and weaving them together to make a stronger nest. Some who made long narrow nests, now made short fat nests. I wish I still remembered who it was, as the images they had on-line were fascinating.

Although not considered fauna, in the greenhouse industry, we made numerous interspecies crosses to get the many hybrids we now enjoy. Not all of these crosses can occur naturally. Or the odds were so high against it, it was unlikely.
However, most of these were by forced mutations, but not always.
Some plants, especially Mimosa's, have some very unique properties. Like the ability to fold up quickly.
Others, like the Venus Fly Trap and other meat (insect) eating plants, have very complex sensory and hydraulic systems.
Sometimes I wonder what the early dawn of civilization plants were capable of.

I agree, each critter, right down to the tiniest microbe, has a very valuable and defined purpose.
When studying the complexity and harmony of everything at once. I just can't see it being by happenstance.
If one only studied the complexity of an eyeball, from human or horse. Planet earth has just not been here long enough for an eye to have come about by evolution. If it did, then we would have super computers that developed from plant life, that would be much further advanced than we hope to be in another 100 years. Metal would have forged itself into a simple automobile engine. And rocks would have formed their own four lane roadways, far simpler than the structure of an eye.

We have learned enough about some biological sciences, that we can grow a human ear on a hogs back, or a human nose on a gazelle. The more we learn about what we currently call DNA, the more we learn just how complex everything really is.
But will we ever really understand every part of it? If we do get that far along, could we then create our own from nothing?
Not likely. And that's the paradox.
Look here God, we can now create man, all by ourselves.
OK, let's see you!
They scientist bends over and scoops up a handful of dust.
God says, ahem. That's my dust, go make your own dust first.
So, man is not as smart as he thinks he is.
He can combine ingredients, he can cross species.
But he cannot make the ingredients from nothing!

Yeah, I know, they think they can from energy.
Now, go create what elements it takes to make energy.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 05 Jun 2013, 16:04
by Ice.Maiden
Hi Gary. Very interesting.

DNA's a highly complex molecule manufactured in the cell nucleus and serves as the cell's "brain." DNA's the blueprint for everything the cell does. In a human cell, the DNA's arranged in 46 distinct sections called chromosomes. They're arranged in pairs, 23 chromosomes from each biological parent.

Together, the 46 chromosomes contain more than 100,000 genes. A gene's a segment of DNA that determines the structure of a protein, which's needed for development and growth as well as carrying out vital chemical functions in the body. Like the chromosomes, genes're arranged in pairs — one gene from the mother and one from the father.

Each gene occupies a specific location on a chromosome. Through a number of biochemical steps, each gene tells a cell to make a different protein. Some genes instruct the cell to manufacture structural proteins, which serve as building blocks. Other genes tell the cell to produce hormones, and so on.

When a cell receives the message to divide, it goes through the cell cycle, which includes several phases for the division to be completed. Many processes are involved in cell reproduction and all these processes have to take place correctly for a cell to divide properly. If anything goes wrong during this complicated process, a cell may become cancerous.

A cancer cell's a cell that grows out of control. Unlike normal cells, cancer cells ignore signals to stop dividing, to specialise, or to die and be shed. Growing in an uncontrollable manner and unable to recognize its own natural boundary, the cancer cells might spread to areas of the body where they don't belong. In a cancer cell, several genes mutate and the cell becomes defective. There are two general types of gene mutations. One type, dominant mutation, is caused by an abnormality in one gene in a pair. An example's a mutated gene that produces a defective protein that causes the growth-factor receptor on a cell's surface to be constantly "on" when, in fact, no growth factor's present. The result's that the cell receives a constant message to divide.

The second general type of mutation, recessive mutation's, characterized by both genes in the pair being damaged. For example, a normal gene called p53 produces a protein that turns "off" the cell cycle and thus helps to control cell growth. The primary function of the p53 gene is to repair or destroy defective cells, thereby controlling potential cancerous cells. This type of gene's called a tumor suppressor gene. If only one p53 gene in the pair is mutated, the other gene'll still be able to control the cell cycle. However, if both genes're mutated, the "off" switch's lost, and the cell division's no longer under control.

Abnormal cell division can also be caused by viruses. In this case, genes may be normal, but the protein may not function normally because the cell contains a cancer-producing virus.

How a specific cancer cell behaves depends on which processes aren't functioning properly. Some cancer cells simply divide and produce more cancer cells, and the tumor mass stays where it began. Other cancer cells're able to invade normal tissue, enter the bloodstream, and metastasize to a remote site in the body.

In the case of lung cancer caused by smoking - as an example - it's the carcinogenic particles which bind to the DNA of cells which cause the mutation process, and why scientists now know that second-hand smoke can be as bad as if you inhale directly from a cigarette, because the smoke settles and forms a toxic dust - which can hang around for a long time and which people continue to breathe in, so, although they might be non-smokers, they're still liable to breathe in the dust which settles in their lungs - or elsewhere.

Not everyone who smokes get cancer, not every non-smoker escapes it. It depends on the toxic particles binding to an individual's DNA, and these can also come from many other sources. This's why I shudder at the thought of what poisonous sprays are used on foodstuff, and various additives which, taken over a period of time, can cross over into a cell's DNA and cause multiple problems.

Your wife's lack of smoking made no difference to her condition. It could've come from all manner of sources - from what she inhaled in the air, drank or ate. The result can be the same, and her doctor should've recognised this, rather than accuse her of being a smoker. However, I've had a similar experience myself. A liver scan showed that it'd developed the type of condition which's often seen in heavy drinkers. I don't drink alcohol, although I've had some in the past. Eventually, the consultant apologised to me and agreed that it hadn't been caused by drinking at all!

Well - sorry for the biology lesson Gary, but it's something I'm interested in.

Yes, going onto ants - they're fascinating things aren't they? In fact, most insects are, but I think because ants are in profusion and we can watch them at work - as with bees - it just strikes me as wonderful that these little beings live such well-structured lives. You're right as well - they DO communicate by making sounds to each other, and also by touch and sending out pheromones. Fabulous really, isn't it?

I hear you with regard to trying to cross-breed certain plants and insects, and I've also wondered what the plants from millions of years ago were capable of doing. Many plants have ways of protecting themselves from predators; some close up, some act as traps, some've developed deadly spikes, etc. Everything around us's there for a purpose, and each survives in its own unique way.

However, now we come to your final two paragraphs - which I had to smile at, simply for the way you put it! : )

I agree with you, in that, as far as we know, we can't create something from absolutely nothing, so something had to've created IT - the very first microscopic particle, sort of thing, but I can see both sides of a discussion on creation and evolution. There's still a great deal that we don't know, and I don't think that we WILL ever know everything, because I don't think man can comprehend anything as "just being". For us, it has to've had a beginning - but maybe not! : )

We can create life from stem cells. At Kyoto university, they've managed to produce an egg from a female mouse, which was then fertilized and grew into a foetus. An egg can also be made to divide without the use of sperm - again, by using stem cells, which obviously contain all the DNA necessary to produce life.

So when the Bible says that Eve was created from Adam's rib, it was absolutely possible, providing that "someone" had the knowledge to do it, which again begs the question of whether God was a superior being from old earth or another planet. Sorry - that's not meant to be blasphemous - but just to illustrate that these things are possible - and when you look at the huge old age of some of the people mentioned in the Bible, why not? If Methuselah was said to've been 900-plus years old, then he, and others, must've gained a lot of knowledge during that time, possibly the same as the being that we call God, who might've been a lot older.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 06 Jun 2013, 14:26
by Kellemora
No apology needed for the bio lesson, it was very interesting.

If we go back far enough, we can even ask, where did God come from?

Some people have trouble understanding me when I say both Creationism and Evolution are the same thing.
This is because people get settled in one camp or the other and disagree with the other side.
I think the two go hand in hand, and work together like a Swiss watch.

In Darwin's theory of Evolution, everything began from a single drop of acid and developed over time.
It is taught in skewls, despite the fact that there has never been a single thing proven about his theory. In fact, most of what he taught was proven erroneous. Yet it is still taught as based on facts!
Creationism on the other hand, is not allowed to be taught in skewls.

A tadpole becomes a frog; larva becomes a worm which becomes a butterfly; are their natural reproductive cycles. NOT a change of genre as Darwinism teaches.
And now that we can study DNA, we can correct the mistakes made in early fauna tables, from which genera were named.

I also don't have a problem with the so called Big Bang Theory. Science makes it pretty convincing that everything in our known universe is traveling away from a central point and further into space.
In and of itself, that is ZERO proof regarding Evolution.
A seed sprouts, an egg hatches, is not proof that life began with that egg. Who laid the egg?

The same can be said for the universe. Who created the seed that burst forth producing all the planets and heavenly bodies.
What type of Instruction Set was included in that seed, placed in the center of the universe. And who placed it there?

Just as you described the complexity of the DNA and all of the things it contains. So did the seed in the center of space, we call the Big Bang when it sprouted. It contained all the instructions for the universe to grow and everything on the planets and sailing through space.

They can estimate when the Big Bang may have occurred, and it was not long enough ago for happenchance evolution to have taken place. Not even long enough for an eye to be formed by happenchance. Ergo, it had to come from a pre-planned instruction set placed in that seed that made the Big Bang in the first place.

Otherwise, where did everything come from that caused the Big Bang? It had to have a beginning somewhere!

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 06 Jun 2013, 16:01
by Ice.Maiden
Exactly! I agree with everything you've said.

We haven't got the answers to these things, and probably never will have, but it doesn't stop us from wondering, does it? Unless something CAN be created from nothing, be it that first drop of acid or speck of dust, whatever, then something or someone had to've created it, and yes, I also agree with you that creation and evolution go hand in hand.

I don't know whether I believe in God or not, so I suppose I'm agnostic. I went to Sunday School as a child, and we went to church at least once a week. Now I only go when members of the family ask me to. I believe in the powers of nature, but I also believe that there's something more to the whole cycle. What that is, I have no idea, but I don't laugh at religion and I don't laugh at science. There's a whole lot more to it than we know.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 07 Jun 2013, 11:55
by Kellemora
Although we don't see miracles every day, and many of them can be explained away using science or coincidence.

I've just had way too many unexplainable occurrences in my life, not to doubt the intervention of a supreme being watching over us.
Many of the most recent happened to bring Debi and I together, and provide all the funds necessary for it to come about.
I heard an audible voice tell me what to do, and when. And yes I questioned it. I was told in advance of certain things that would take place. They did, exactly as described. I even challenged the voice, and they gave me a challenge right back. One with a promise that if I did exactly as told, no matter how crazy or disastrous it sounded to me, if I followed the instructions to the letter, the promise would be waiting. It was!
I've even had some tangible items that I took to a place for physical testing. They were as flabbergasted about it as I was, and they could not determine a source. They could not even determine the type of ink or glue used on the item. Well, as far as the glue, they found none, so had no idea what held it together.
I wanted to know who left the item on my door, and I figured if I found the maker of the item, I could track down who sent it.
The largest company in our town, who deals with that product, never saw one like it before and could not determine anything from it, to define a source. Heck, they couldn't even define what it was actually made of for sure. In other words, I was never meant to find out.

I think I mentioned before, that with less than a month to go before our wedding, out of the clear blue sky, June 1st. And impossible date to get even four years in advance, was available. As were every service required, caterers, reception hall, padre, cake, music, chauffeur and limo. People who are normally booked up at least three years in advance, all of them had that busiest of dates completely open, with no time conflicts. More than amazing!

Of the many trips I made from St. Loo to Knoxville, to visit Debi, all the moving of furniture, etc. The wedding, reception, honeymoon, moving her to St. Loo, and us getting settled in. Plus her not having to go to work for a year (although she did take a job after six months). Not one dime for all of this came from my tiny household budget. Excess funds, often in the exact amount needed at the time, always became available, and usually from an unusual or unknown source.

In other words, it had to be more than one coincidence right after the other for over two years.

Then, after moving south, because I was taking Debi's mom to the doctor at least three times a month, which increased to like six times a month. I volunteered to bring other elderly to their doctors appointments, and a few to do grocery shopping.
I have a gas guzzling SUV. However, it never used one drop of fuel, while I was making any volunteer trip bringing the elderly around to their appointments. I caught on to this early on, when my trip odometer (which I reset at each fill-up out of habit), when it reached the mileage when I needed to refill, the gauge was still showing a half a tank or more.
At first I thought, I just forgot to punch the reset button. The next time I refueled I remembered to punch the button. I also wrote down the mileage from my main odometer.
I had a very busy month, bringing folks around to appointments, I never stopped to refuel, so I couldn't have forgotten to punch the button. I noted that the trip odometer passed the point when I normally refueled, yet I still had over 3/4 tank of gas. Is the gauge broken? It is weird at times. I'll push it and not get gas. The trip odometer now showed three times my normal fill-up time. I checked my mileage from the main odometer. No error, the trip odometer agreed with the miles driven. I had better get gas, just to be safe. The most I could squeeze into my tank was two gallons, which caused it to overflow, trying to force more in. I had made one trip to the post office for myself, which would have used about two gallons or less. I didn't force fill it the time before that. I had driven just shy of 500 miles, 493 miles, consuming less than two gallons of fuel. All but 10 of those miles were from bringing elderly around to appointments.

Some folks would say, somebody was coming and filling up your tank at night.
If so, they did not trigger any property security alarms, nor the car alarm, nor got the five dogs to barking, nor the neighbors three dogs. So it is highly unlikely anyone topped off my tank for me.

One other odd thing. Car oil is usually fairly dirty come time to change it. Many times when I stopped for my grease job and oil change, the oil was still fairly clear, much clearer than it should have been at 3k miles.

As I said, I've had way to many nearly impossible things happen, sometimes with foreknowledge, sometimes as a discovery of something like my fuel not being used.
Plus, as I've said many times. Despite the fact Debi and I are complete opposites, don't like many of the same things, we have never had a cross word between us. Both of us are happier than we've ever been in our entire lives.
That don't mean we have not had problems. I think we've had more than our share, with natural problems, like the hailstorm that ruined all of our hard work on the house.

Somebody is watching over us! I would like to think it's J.C. and the gang!

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 07 Jun 2013, 17:45
by Ice.Maiden
You sound to've been blessed Gary, whoever helped you, and I'm pleased for you.

My mother'd agree with you wholeheartedly. She believes in God very strongly, although she wouldn't push it down anyone's throat, sort of thing. She, too, says that wonderful things've happened to her. She doesn't pray for anything material, but for help, or to be shown the right way where necessary, and she swears her prayers're always answered, because she prays with sincerity and faith.

You can't argue with that, can you, although, I tend to think that sometimes, by thinking or talking out your problems to God, Jesus or whatever you believe in, that your own mind can overcome some of the problems by giving answers that come from within yourself - if that makes sense? The power of the mind can be incredible, and if you truly believe in something, even if it's yourself, those positive thoughts can materialise.

The incidents with your cars WAS pretty amazing, and I don't disbelieve you. There seems no logical answer does there, but if you believe that it was a case of Divine Intervention, then that's fair enough. Whatever happened, it benefited you.

As for you and your wife being like chalk and cheese, this happens. They say that opposites attract, don't they, and I think we see it all the time, although I don't think that has much to do with God's plan for us. I think we all subconsciously look for things in a partner which fills a need, and if you're lucky enough to meet someone who provides those things, even if you're otherwise different, it can keep you close. Also, if you hang out where similarly-minded folk to yourself are, the chances are that you'll be drawn to someone, through mutual interests, but I DO believe that you have to live with someone to know them properly. The reality of a person's nature at work, for instance, might belie what they'd be like to share your life with.

However, I know two couples who met via the internet, and who're now married and extremely happy. They probably got to understand each other better than had they met at a social function, because sometimes, people are able to write about themselves easier than actually talking in person. Weird, but true.

One of the couples I'm on about, got chatting online. They shared photos, and both fancied each other. It came as a shock to the woman when she realised that the place she thought he lived in over in the US, was actually in the UK. She said her heart sank, as she had no money to come over here, but her intended had a different idea. He wasn't working, but begged and borrowed the money to go over and see her. She said that when he turned up at the airport, she ran into his arms. She thought he was the most handsome man she'd ever met - awww ......

Well after another visit, the two couldn't bear to be apart. She eventually moved over here, they got married, and they're blissfully happy. Nice ending. We went to their wedding, which'd had to be done on a shoestring, so my wedding present to them was to arrange for a professional photographer to be there on the day, and it went further than that, but I won't say on here. The couple were delighted, and everyone had a fabulous day.

The second couple also met online, and then started having video contact. The more they spoke, the deeper their feelings grew. Neither dare tell the other how they felt, in case they were rejected, but the woman decided to tell him anyway. To her great relief, he said that he'd been feeling something towards her for months, so they met up, and there was no awkward moment. She said they chatted like old friends - which in way, they were. After a few dates, they both "knew", and decided to get married. Another happy ending. They say it was the best thing they ever did.

I don't know how I'd feel about that, given the same situation. I prefer to know someone in person, although I have some good internet friends. Sometimes though, how a person comes over on the internet might not be quite what you expect if you meet up. I think it could be dangerous as well. Not every nice person's really how they portray themselves, although I think intuition helps.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 08 Jun 2013, 12:11
by Kellemora
Hi Icey

In my case, I just lost my wife of twenty years. She was wheelchair bound the last several years. In the hospital more often than Carters has pills.
My business, my income stream, had all but dried up from taking care of her. Hospital bills were averaging over 26k per month. So, whatever savings or income I did have, all went to that.

Needless to say, I was NOT out there looking. After her passing, I went back to work, often ten hour days, just trying to see daylight again. I was selling off my holdings as fast as I could, to make my new house payments and get those hospital bills paid off. I had no extra money for anything. In fact, I was usually short, which is why I refinanced my house. The payments on my house were now higher than I could bear, without killing myself working.
By selling most of my assets, I was able to pay off the medical bills, and make a few large payments on my house, to get the monthly payments back down some. But it was still financed for close to what it was worth.

One of my side jobs was as a moderator for a web site's chat room. At quitting time, my relief did not show up right away, so I ended up working an extra two hours over my normal quitting time. This was not the first time he was late for work, and also he had a habit of disappearing for an hour or two during his shift. This chat room was one that had full moderation. This means that when you respond to someone, it does not appear on the users screens, until the moderator reads it, then hits the post button. In other words, when busy, it is a grueling, fast paced job.

When my relief showed up, I logged off and went to my bedroom to go to bed. Had my shirt off, my boots off and stood up to remove my britches. I don't know if I heard this with my ears or just in my head. But a voice said, go back to my post. It had the sound of urgency to it. So I slipped on my slippers and went back to the chat room.
As a moderator, we come in via a back door, using a program totally separate from what the users are using. They only know we are there if we choose to turn on the moderator flag.
In my mind, I figured the other moderator flew the coop, but no, he was still there, doing his job. I saw no problems and wondered what the heck. I decided to go back to bed. However, when I reached for my mouse to shut-down, my hand froze in place. A very audible voice said, the next person who logs on, is whom the Lord chose as your mate. You would not believe the number of things that flashed through my mind in the split second after hearing that. I just knew the Devil was playing tricks on me, so cast him out. Only the voice came back even louder, stating the same thing.

I saw the next person who logged in, and ignored them. I also noticed that the normal greeting to a new arrival did not appear. Is the system broken again? I hit the button to send the welcome greeting and the short rule sheet.
It is too lengthy to get into all that transpired after that here.
But as a moderator, coming in from another way, I do not have access to the users private message board. Well, I do by connecting to it by the front door. But that's neither here nor there. Moderators have their own message board, totally independent from the user system.
I received a Private Message, on my moderators message system, from a user using the users private message system. This is totally impossible. We are on different servers using different computer programs. The logging programs on both systems failed to record these messages. How could they log it? It would be like me trying to open a Notepad message on your computer using a Painting program on my computer, with no link between us. Impossible!
Nevertheless, we talked until after three O'Clock in the morning.
I figured I would never see this person again. I even tried to pick an argument with God, for allowing Ole Scratch to confuse me. I more or less put my foot down and said, OK God, IF you had anything to do with this. The ball is now in your court.

I have several e-mail accounts, plus a new totally private e-mail account I had never given out the address for to anyone.
Some of my accounts were for business, some for web work and I did have two personal accounts. But this one was brand new, I just subscribed for it through my provider, on a secure server.
In the morning, when I went to check my e-mails, when I checked to see if the new one was up and running, it was, it held one message, and that message was from Debi, thanking me for the chat.
One of the first things I did upon seeing it, was to switch to Verbose mode and open the Header Info.
You've probably done this yourself and saw all the lines of text telling where and how the message got to you.
The header info in this case was nearly blank. It only gave her ISP as the source of the e-mail. No nodes, no hubs, no POP servers, and no Path to my mailbox. No received by or from server information was indicated in the header. Another impossiblity.
I copied her e-mail address over to another account, on a different server, using a totally different POP server, and responded from that account. I only said something like, you're welcome, it was nice meeting you, hope you enjoy the service. This way she would only know about my main personal e-mail address. Not the new secure one I had established.
When she replied to this message, it did come back on my main e-mail, as expected.
I asked her how she e-mailed the thank you to me. She said, she did not e-mail it to me, she sent the thank you message in the message window on the service. The service only had two of my e-mail addresses on file, and definitely not the brand new one I had just obtained. I checked with the IT department and told them I had carried on a conversation for three hours while I was on the moderator system, with a user on the user message system. No logs were generated, can they check into it for me. As I suspected, they could only reply with what I already knew. It is impossible for you to message someone on the user systems private message board, nor can they message you on the moderator systems private message board. There are no links between them, and they are on different servers. They didn't believe me when I said I did for three full hours. I gave them the ID number of the person, and my control number.
All they could find was that this person just joined, looked around for about five minutes, clicked on the chat button, and remained in chat for less that two minutes, then logged out of the system. It did log the fact that I logged in as moderator and that I sent a welcome message. However, I logged off thirty seconds after sending the welcome message.
When I told them I received an e-mail to an account they do not have on record from this person, and this person said they did not e-mail me, but the reponse I received they had made in the user message window. As expected, they said that was impossible also. There are absolutely no links from the message window to any other part of the system. Chat is an entirely separate program, one can only get from web site to the chat room by clicking a link which disconnects them from the main server and move them to the chat server. In other words, everything that transpired was impossible to have taken place.

Because I run logs on my computers, and we continued our conversations via my regular e-mail. I was able to go back and print out everything we said after our second exchange of e-mail conversations, that took place on the main system.
I cannot believe some of the things I said, or that we talked about. But there it was in black n white, on a hardcopy.
It could be construed from our conversation, that I had actually hinted at a proposal of marriage in our fourth or fifth conversation. I had no idea what she looked like, her age, where she lived, for sure, and didn't know what nationality she was. It was also evident that in the beginning, I gave a cold shoulder to her, more or less. Although I never remembered doing either of those things.

Remember, I have no money, working over ten hours a day attempting to make ends meet. I have no time to myself for anything. And after losing my wife only a couple of months prior, I was not interested in dating anyone. Much less someone from the internet who lived who knows how many miles away. Even if I wanted to, I did not have the time nor the money to do so. The more I fought against it, the louder my orders of what to do came thundering through my head.

I received an order to stop working, there were more important things to attend to.
Stop Work, are you crazy? It will be financially disastrous for me not to go to work!
You need to prepare to make a trip.
Make a trip, no way, no how, I can't.
You can and you will, now hurry, no time to waste.

Without getting into all the details that transpired between those first days and over the next few months.
You know the outcome. I followed the orders as instructed. And as I said before, not one dime came from my budget for any of it. The funds were there for making my car ready, the trip, my bills that needed paid before I left, and those that needed paid when I got back. Of the many trips I made back and forth, there was always just enough money to cover them and my bills. Some of which came from wheels already set in motion by me previously. But the whole point is, I stopped working and kept making the requested trips.
Our wedding, as you know, shifted to June 1st, an impossible date. And everything was five star all the way. We had the best restaurant in all of Knoxville for our reception. A professional concert pianist to play music while dining. All the things I never could afford before, and still couldn't, all funded from unknown sources. And even when I tried to check on some of the sources, their records were so messed up, even the bank had no idea where the money came from. It was just there.
However, I had things I had to do, instructions to follow, with promises that if I did them, everything would be provided for.
Once we were married, moved back home and settled in for over a year, then it was back to the old daily grind. But we were not entirely on our own. We still received a little help from above from time to time.
And what may appear to be a disaster to outsiders looking in, we know it all worked out for the best. The ending is perfect!


Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 09 Jun 2013, 21:40
by Ice.Maiden
It's just incredible isn't it, but congratulations on following what your heart/head told you to do. To put these things down to Divine Intervention shows that you must have massive faith.

I have to say this, though. At the time, you must've gone through enormous stress, what with your wife being ill and the financial difficulties you faced. Then with her passing, the situation must've seemed even worse in some respects. I think that when folk are under such strain, they can inadvertently do things which they have no recollection of, or which their memories work in such a way that things become distorted.

Obviously, I have no answers to all the amazing things which occurred, and if you believe that God played a part in the miraculous events which transpired, then who am I, or anyone else, to argue with that? Whatever, however, it cropped up that you met Debi, it was obviously right for you both, and I'm pleased that you found happiness.

When I mentioned my own feelings about online relationships, it's because I've never had one - other than normal friendships. Who knows what any of us'd do if we were in need of companionship and love? Like I say, I know it can work - and maybe just as well as bumping into someone at a bus stop, kind of thing. People meet their partners in all manner of ways, but I'd be worried in case the object of my desires turned out to be something different from how I'd envisaged them - like a Jeckyll and Hyde character. Obviously you'd soon find out once you met up with that person, but that could be dangerous from a female point of view. Then again ... I suppose it could - and does - happen anyway, however a couple meet.

You were lucky. I was also lucky. I had no idea on the first date with my husband that I was going to marry him, and yet he said that he knew straight away. Personally, I don't think you can fall in love at first sight; fancy someone, yes, but love's a whole lot different from infatuation, although some might disagree with that.

Irrespective of the two couples I know who met via the internet, I've also heard about a good few more which've worked out well, but in most of those cases, the people concerned were lonely. No shame in that, but it's often easier to search for someone online who appears to be in the same boat, and with that, you can be drawn together by a mutual "need".

Then again, I seem to be contradicting myself all the time, because it's basic human nature to want someone to share things with. We're programmed to look for a mate, whether we decide to do so or not. I know folk who're happily single, and yet not, in some ways. Single people often throw themselves into work and have little time for socialising. They get used to coming and going as they please, with only themselves to worry about, but all too often I've heard women (in particular) start to change their views as their biological clocks start ticking away, or they suddenly realise that it's NOT such a good thing to come home to an empty house and have no one to share their day's experience with. Loneliness can be a nasty feeling, and isolates those who're not very confident or those who have no way of getting out and about to meet a partner.

Of course, all cases are different, but what I find horrendous, is that only yesterday I was reading an article about dating websites. 35% of their members, as a whole, are already married. I think that's wrong Gary. It's emotionally cheating on your wife/husband even though these people might never actually meet up with anyone.

I see no harm in having a good laugh and a chat with online acquaintances, but I know that lots of people go too far with flirting and so on. Would they sit there typing/speaking to someone they fancied if their partners were present? I doubt it, and so to my mind, it's unfair. Some'd argue that it's harmless, but not if someone's being led on and starts to hope that there might be a chance with that other person. It can be devastating for them to face rejection if that person shies off after a while.

However, if two people are like-minded, and find that they surfacely get on very well, I suppose it's natural for their chats to progress to a possible meeting, but that's when I think you REALLY start to get to know each other. It's one thing to have someone being very nice to you on the other side of a screen, but another matter if you see them in the flesh, whereas, if you meet someone in person from the beginning, you get an idea of what they're like within a short time of conversing. Mind you, even that can be deceptive, because everyone puts on their best side when they first meet someone, don't they?

I can only say that if your beliefs are strong enough to think that God played a part in your fate, then that's wonderful. I don't have that faith, although I'd like to. I trust my own judgement in everything, and if I'm wrong, then I have no one to blame but myself, but I've heard a few Christian people who firmly believe that God, or Jesus's come to their rescue in some manner. That's fine - in fact, it's amazing. I'm happy for anyone who finds peace and harmony, and you obviously did the right thing in your case. : )

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 10 Jun 2013, 11:41
by Kellemora
There are a lot of social web sites that are considered dating sites, even though they have a very high number of married folks who participate in the discussions. I've belonged to one for decades now. It started as a group of people interested in learning about something, akin to a hobby, and just grew and evolved from there. Now their main focus is as a dating site, although I think very few there ever get involved in actual dating.

Debi's story almost parallels mine, with little variance. She was divorced for eleven years, busy raising her son, the typical soccer mom, taking him to all kinds of events, and working three jobs to make ends meet. One full-time day job, a part-time job after dinner, and a weekend job. Plus making time to get her son to the places he needed to be.
In other words, she was busy, busy, busy, with no time for herself.
The last thing on her mind was to go out hunting for a fella. She did have a few friends she would go to events with, like a date, but nothing ever serious, because she had not time for it.

Like me, she was drawn to her computer, then not knowing why, she typed the exact URL of the web site I worked for.
This was totally not like her at all. IF she was looking for something, she would use a search engine. She can count on one hand the number of times she had ever typed into the URL bar in her entire life. Something just urged her to type what she did. And from her end, she said she just followed the on-screen prompts which took her to the chat room. She says she did not press any other buttons, and has no idea how come things appeared in my off-site moderators message box. Nor did she send anything to my mailbox. How could she, she didn't know my name or my e-mail address.
She was as shocked as I was about what transpired. And even more shocked at what she turned and said to her little pooch. "I'm going to marry that man some day soon." We have something else similar that happened after our wedding, I'll get to in a minute.

Through her work places, Debi made friends with a lot of guys. Some of them would over the course of time, ask her out for a date. She rarely accepted, but when she did, and they came to pick her up. Her pooch would put up a fuss, growl and even snap at almost anyone who came to her door.
Now I know humans must put off a scent or message that dogs can pick up on. Which could heighten or decrease a dogs emotion and actions toward someone. But her pooch was always cautious, even around her friend she dated many times.

For our first date, she had no idea of when I would arrive, just that it would be sometime after noon, perhaps before she got home from work. There is no direct path from my house to hers, and being the first time I was driving it, I had no idea how long it would take. I did print out some mapquest maps, but they were not as accurate as I hoped. Especially after I arrived in Knoxville. She lived in Maryville at the time, in an area with absolutely no street signs to help you get there.

I can only assume she was a little disappointed when I was not waiting for her, as she arrived home from work.
She was sitting on her couch watching a show on television. Her pooch jumped from her lap and ran to the door, wagging his tail like a long lost friend was at the door. I was nearby, but not to her apartment yet. Her pooch never left the door for a second. It was a good five minutes before I found her apartment, parked and went up to the door. When she opened the door, her little pooch leapt into my arms, something her pooch had never done to anyone before in its entire life.

By the way, this is the first time I had ever seen her face! She did send some comical glamour shots to me via e-mail. Just the kind of pictures you would send to scare someone away, not attract them. She invited me in of course. I sat down on the couch as she got ready, her pooch in my lap the whole time. All I knew about her pooch at that time was she sure is a friendly little gal. I didn't learn until later that her pooch was not at all friendly, not with anyone except her mom and dad, and especially not with someone she didn't know, coming to date Debi.
Her pooch was one of the clinchers that let her know, I must be the right guy, else her pooch would have warned her.

Things we say that make absolutely no sense at all, at the time we say them.

You must realize that I had spent twenty years getting my home exactly the way I wanted it for my retirement years.
I had never planned on moving from that home, ever. It was paid for in full once, but borrowed to pay medical bills for Ruth. At the time I met Debi, I had it paid back down some, so the payments were affordable.
And 95% of my income was derived from landlocked businesses. A customer base that took years to establish. And clients who relied on my being available to them, in the immediate area, when needed.
In other words, it was impossible for me to move, even if I wanted to.

After Debi and I were married, (I had already spent a month moving her and her sons things from her apartment to St. Louis, a load each trip to visit her and her family). We went to her mom and dads after our short honeymoon where we had her car loaded onto a trailer. We were buckled in, ready to pull out, and out of my mouth came something we talked about for almost four straight hours afterwards. Her mom and dad came out to the car to say goodbye as we pulled out. I glanced over at them and said, "don't worry, we'll be back within about three years." This did not mean visits, as we still made visits every other week. Debi said that when she talked to her mom on the phone, her mom heard it differently than she did. Her mom said that I said, "don't worry, I'll have her back home within three years." Her mom fretted over this to no end, figuring I would only keep Debi for a few years, then divorce her. However, after she got to know me a little better, she never thought those things anymore. Although it was confusing to me, once her whole family, namely her aunts and uncles got to know me, they said things like "boy are we glad WE married you!" Must be a southern thing, hi hi.....

Despite the fact I was NEVER going to move. Upon learning more about her family. I knew what had to be done.
One and one-half years later, Debi and I moved to Knoxville, and have been here ever since.
She lost her dad a few months after we arrived in Knoxville. He was the healthy one, leaving no one to take care of her mom. In other words, we arrived back in time to see that her mother was properly cared for. A job I was glad to handle for many years.

There had to be some force strong enough to make me change my lifelong plans, walk away from my only source of income, leave behind all that I worked for. And do what I swore I would never do. I didn't have to say no, I wasn't asked. My steps were guided every step of the way. I could fight it, but it did no good. And as I've said many times, Debi and I have never been happier in our entire lives.


Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 10 Jun 2013, 12:40
by Ice.Maiden
I love it! What a happy story.

I DO believe that things happen for a reason - good AND bad - and I think you and your wife are very fortunate to've found each other.

My only regret in life's that I wasn't able to have more children. I would've loved a houseful, but I never forget that I've been blessed with those we've got. Some of my friends're unable to have one child, let alone two, and their misery's heartbreaking to see. Ours were both dearly wanted and planned for, but I never expected the first one to come along quite so quickly! We had a "honeymoon baby" which prompted everyone to make jokes about HAVING to get married, sort of thing. : )

Fate certainly dealt you a good hand though Gary, and it sounds as though you both deserve what you have together now. Some folk just "know" when they've met the right one, don't they?

As for your wife's little dog - oh definitely. Animals have a sixth sense about people, and they certainly know when they're going to like someone or not, although I've never heard of such a quick response as you had! Wonderful.

I hope you don't think that I was prying to find out the details of how you both met! When talking about chat rooms/internet dating, I'm always sceptical as to what's behind the pleasantries, but the more you chat to people, the more of an idea forms, doesn't it?

The fact that you didn't know what Debi looked like was a huge gamble, and yet apart from when we're all young and want to be seen with someone who looks nice, I don't think looks are the major factor at all. For me, it's someone who's pleasant, kind, thoughtful and respectful. They have to have a sense of humour and be of a reasonable intelligence. The traits I don't like in a man, are aggressiveness, jealousy, a dictatorial manner and an abhorrence of animals. I'm sure there are more, but those are the main ones. I don't ask for much, do I?!! : )

By the same token, I'd expect to be the same back. Treat folk as you'd wish to be treated yourself, kind of thing, and what you receive, you return. I also think that honesty and openness between a couple are vital. I can't always talk to my OH. He was brought up to control his emotions, which I find ridiculous, but we compliment each other. I can be silly and childish, and love to give piggybacks to youngsters and generally laugh and have fun, whereas The Husband, good though he is with children, can't quite get into the swing of getting down to their level like I do! I call him "stuffy-pants" in fun, but respect his more serious manner when it comes to dealing with business, money and making sure that life runs smoothly.

So yes Gary, we've both done pretty well I'd say! : )

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 11 Jun 2013, 12:38
by Kellemora
I love to stop and play with kids. Debi says I'm going to get in trouble for doing that some day. I don't think she realizes that I always stay a good distance from them, and make sure their parents are watching. I teach them a couple of tricks done with their hands, and if they move too close to me, I back up, sometimes into a person standing behind me, watching over my shoulder. I then show them how the trick is done so they can pull it on their friends.
I also sing novelty songs with them. Debi is so tired of hearing them, she groans whenever I start one.
They are the type that take continuous practice to master. Because they are either faster than most folks can speak, or they have a really hard tongue twisting refrain, that the beat has to be just right for it to work.

I gave up actual magic tricks that required hard hand movements that my arthritis won't let me do properly anymore. And the ones I had to make gimmicked props to achieve the illusion.

I'll let you decide about the following and tell me what you think.
Before I made my first trip south to visit Debi. I put my car in the shop for a grease job and oil change. Figuring about 35 bucks expense, which I really couldn't afford. And I knew it would take around 250 dollars, money I really didn't have available for fuel, to make the trip. The shop called me because they found a bad bearing on an idler pulley, and the serpentine belt needed replaced also. Great, now where am I going to come up with the money for that? Oh well, I'll put in on my charge card in order to get my car back, I needed my car (actually an SUV) for work. When I got there to pick up my car, it would not start. I waited in the waiting room while they checked it out. The starter was bad and I had to wait for the parts house to bring one. I guess I was in the waiting room about two hours before they called me.
I'm thinking all of these problems, and the expense of them, are a sign that I should not plan on going to visit Debi. Placing these debts on my credit card meant I would need to work an extra hour or two each day to have the money by the time the statement came to pay my credit card.
All that time I spent in the waiting room, I was praying whether to go or not. I did not want to go, I could not afford to go, and I had no business going either. What would it accomplish? In those prayers, I asked for a specific sign, one that I would not fail to recognize. I even mentioned a big red sign to not go, or a big green sign that I should go.
When I arrived home from the dealer, hanging on my door was a large pasteboard envelope, similar in size to a FedEx or Priority Mail envelope. It had no writing on it and was colored bright Kelly green. I parked the car and on arriving at my door, I reached for the envelope. It fell into my hand without my touching or pulling on it first. I was also angry, because I had just refinished the front door, and here someone stuck a tack in it or stuck tape to it. There was no sign of anything that held this envelope up to my door.
I'm going to jump to some future events here concerning this envelope before telling you what was in it.
a) I questioned the one and only person who knew I was thinking about taking a short trip, but never told them why.
b) I took the envelope to Hampton Envelope Company to determine the manufacturer.
c) And I viewed the security footage from the ATM camera that faced my door.

The envelope contained the exact amount of money I spent on car repairs, fuel, and food for my trip south and back.
Because I had some change in my pocket before I left, and had some change in my pocket when I returned. I cannot say for certain that it was exactly to the penny. However, other times, when I did make notes, it did come out exactly to the penny.
This was the first trip south, that did not use one cent of my household budget.

a) The person I told swears he did not place any money on my door. I didn't believe him and sent him a check for the money found in the envelope. He returned it. It was not me, really it wasn't. Besides, I don't have that much money to give away.
b) The envelope company could not determine the manufacturer, they could not determine what held the envelope together as they found no adhesive or thermal bonding. Nor could they ascertain the type of ink or process used to color the envelope. I picked up the envelope a week later and placed it on my kitchen island. When I returned home from work the next day, it was not there where I left it. I never found it. None of the kids touched it, nor did they ever see it.
c) I live in the center of the block. My driveway is the only driveway on that block. The houses to my left and right face other streets and their driveways run to those streets in front of their houses. In front of my house is a serpentine brick wall, placed there when the common ground was sold to the bank. On the side of the bank closest to my house, which is uphill from my house, is an ATM machine. The banks parking lot, drive-up windows, vacuum tube transports and the ATM machine are well covered with security cameras. These cameras click a shot every 30 seconds. If a car turns on my street, the ATM camera will catch it. If the camera clicked before the car turned onto the street, it will catch it before it gets to the next turn, even if speeding, it will still catch the back of the car at the next turn. If a person is walking, they will appear several times while walking down the sidewalk. If someone comes to my house, they will be caught on camera at least twice and sometimes three times while on my driveway or sidewalk. Upon viewing the tape from the ATM machine, only one car drove down my street, no one walking was on the street. Although fuzzy, we could see my front door with ease. We stopped the tape when the green envelope appeared on my door. Then backed up five full minutes, then viewed the tape one frame at a time, up to the envelope appearing and for another five minutes after. We probably did this at least 10 times, with several witnesses watching the tape at all. The envelope just appeared out of nowhere.

All of the money in the envelope was crisp new twenty dollar bills, in perfect serial order, but not banded. And yes they were real, not counterfeit. And after viewing the banks ATM tape, I know no one placed the envelope on my door. It was there in one frame, but not on the frame before or after. And as I said, I saw no way it was held to the door. I forgot to mention that when I went to open the flap, it gave no resistance, it opened like it was not glued, yet it was not puffed out as it would be with that much money stuffed into the envelope.

I took the green envelope and the green money as the green sign I requested as the answer I needed to make the trip.

Honest, I'm not making this up! And this was just the start of the many miracles that brought Debi and I to be married and living in Knoxville.

Can you explain it being anything other than divine intervention?

I have some other moneys received that can be explained, even though the coincidence and time frame cannot.
For example: As I was getting ready to make another trip. I went to the mailbox and there was a check from an old school pal I had not seen or heard from in at least 25 years. At an after graduation alumni party, I had loaned him like 85 dollars to buy a suit jacket for a job interview. I never saw him after that. It had a note in the envelope with the check. Sorry it took so long to pay you back. I figured the interest and earnings it should have made you. You're a hard guy to track down. Thanks! The check was for a considerable amount more than I loaned him. And was the exact amount I ended up spending making the trip after I received it. Right to the penny. In this case, I know the source of the funding. But, no return address on the envelope. It arrived the day before I was leaving for the trip, from someone I had not heard from in 25+ years.
You tell me, coincidence or intervention? It came exactly when I needed the funds!

These couple of events should give you a glimpse into how my life with Debi went. And extended well beyond our first five years together. Everything that has happened, always came with a silver lining that we cannot explain or account for.


Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 11 Jun 2013, 18:52
by Ice.Maiden
I can't give any answer to what happened. It's incredible. I think someone must be shining down on you! Lovely Gary, and I hope it continues for you. : )

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 12 Jun 2013, 11:16
by Kellemora
I hope so too. I just wiped out all of our savings to replace one car with a used one that I had a new motor put into, and then fixing my car up again. Spent 3.5 grand, then turned around and spent another 4.5 grand for a new motor and some other work. It still has all the hail damage.

I looked for a car like mine since 1999, I liked it so well I wanted to buy another.
That may sound confusing, since there are millions of Blazers on the road.
Even so, I've never yet found one that contains the features I have in mine.
The one I just bought for Debi, a 2002, I THOUGHT had one of the features. However, it turned out it didn't. It only looked like it did. It does have another feature, but the way the vehicle is built, it is almost impossible to avail yourself to it.

Oh well. Both of our cars have brand new motors, so we should be good for another 100k miles at least. And since both of us are retired. I doubt if we will put 35k on before we croak.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 12 Jun 2013, 14:44
by Ice.Maiden
Oh bless!! Please don't say that. I wish many more long and happy years for you both - but yes, on a serious note, I know what you mean.

It was really bad luck to have all that hail damage, but at least you've managed to fix your car and get another one. OK., so it makes a dent in the wallet, but you can't take it with you Gary. You might as well live up to the hilt, and something'll come along to keep you going in the future.

We all know that vehicles can be expensive items to run, but like yourselves, we need them as well. If you haven't got any major shops, etc., within the vicinity, it's a MUST, isn't it?

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 13 Jun 2013, 13:15
by Kellemora
I had enough reliable and trusty places back home, that I never had to worry about being overcharged or getting ripped off.
Even though I've lived down here for ten years now. All of the places I used that were honest have closed up shop. So, it is basically, catch as catch can on finding someone truly honest, who won't rob you.
I thought the guy I used recently seemed honest. However, a problem I had that I sunk a lot of money into replacing things. It turns out afterward that they finally located the problem. It was the most obvious place they should have looked first too.

I do have one place I know I can trust, but they are always so swamped, that they cut out some of the time consuming jobs.
So it is really hard to find anyone to handle the piddle stuff that I used to do myself.
Cars are made in such a way that a lot of the things we used to be able to do, you just can't anymore. Computers need reset and the new items adjusted, using expensive devices. Way to many useless sensors on cars now too!

Many car dealers, do not have full service shops anymore. Or they only service what they sell, unless it is a warranty job and you are over 100 miles away from the dealer you bought your car from.
I was in Cumberland when a wiper motor broke. I pulled into a dealer there. I bought my car in St. Louis and it was LONG out of warranty. They told me I HAD to take it to West Chevrolet to have it repaired. Why, I'm paying for it. "We only service what we sell." Well, I didn't buy it at West. "No, but you LIVE in their service zone." They gave me the same runaround at first, then asked where I live. When I told them, they fixed it for me. I checked around at a few other places later. I could have had any of the smaller service shops in the area do it for a much less than half of what a dealer charged.

Live and learn.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 13 Jun 2013, 15:34
by Ice.Maiden
Bad news then. People get ripped off everywhere, but over here, the smaller village garages are pretty decent in the main. They reply on local drivers - or anyone - returning to them with their problems, so tend to do a thorough job at a reasonable price - but then, NONE of the work carried out's exactly "reasonable" is it? Cars are expensive to maintain, especially if you have no mechanical or electrical knowledge yourself, so you have no choice but to shop around. We're pretty lucky here. Most folk are honest in their trades, and don't try to pull a fast one.

Re: Of any interest?

PostPosted: 14 Jun 2013, 10:54
by Kellemora
Well, overall, most here are honest too.
It's just not that they are as skilled as they once were.
Or perhaps I should word it this way, cars change faster than they can keep up with the technology.
The '97 Blazer I just put over eight thousand dollars in repairs to, they came and picked up yesterday.
I had an appointment and ran two batteries down trying to get it started.

Once you get it running, it runs A-OK, but I will bet you dollars to donuts, they will call and tell me it needs a new fuel pump.
On this model, the fuel sending unit and fuel pump are inside the gas tank, which means a MINIMUM 600 dollar charge.
They will replace that, I'm almost certain of it, THEN when it don't start the next time, they will replace the computer.
Which isn't it either, so they will then say it's fuel injection system, etc.

In other words, they just don't anymore WHAT IT IS that went wrong. So they start replacing parts.
I figure it will take another 1,500 bucks before they figure it out, and I will have close to 10 grand in repairs.

In the old days, if something went wrong, you knew almost exactly what it was.
They didn't have all kinds of other parts that would give the same symptoms.

If a car didn't start, you checked the fuel filter. The float bowl (needle and seat), the fuel pump, which was a cheap part in many cases.
Now they have all these sensors and computers, more often than not, it is the sensor itself that went bad, not the part itself.

My old 1966 and '67 pickup trucks, used by about 8 different drivers, each got over 215 thousand miles, one had 235 thousand miles. And we NEVER had a major component failure. Just the normal stuff one expects to wear out.

All the bragging about how well these 4.3 liter V-6's are. We have never had one make it to 100k miles yet.
And the transmissions go out between 85k and 125k miles.
Yet they try to tell us the cars run longer and last longer.
Then why does a 3 thousand dollar car, outlast a 35 thousand dollar car, hands down, every time?