Of any interest?

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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 25 May 2013, 19:58

Morning Gary,

Yes, I take on board everything you said. We can only surmise as to what things were used for, or make comparisons against things which we understand today, but of course, the true function of objects we've retrieved may have little relevance to what they REALLY were.

This's the arrogance of man. Ah - well it looks like ... so it MUST be, and then a few years later, someone else comes up with another theory, and that's all it is - theory. Going back to before known alphabets were created, it's impossible to make accurate assumptions. Cuniform scripts, for instance, were adopted from the Arkadian writings from about 2500 BC. This was then updated, but no one can say for definite that they were translated with accuracy. I just think it's a shame that this knowledge's been lost.

When I asked how the Ica Stones could possibly depict people alongside dinosaurs, I think it's because it's generally accepted that man, living in those times, would've been too "backward" to've produced such good images - but WAS he? It seems so, because of the dating of these stones, which go much further back than the animal drawings found on cave walls and so on.

Basically, you have to think - creatures such as the huge alamosaurs, which lived during the late Cretaceous period, died out 65 million years ago at the latest, and that was LONG before man's accepted to've been on the earth ... in which case, he'd never've seen these creatures. Quite how the million-year-old chronology permits the depiction of dinosaurs, which were extinct at least sixty million years earlier, hasn't been explained, so is man far, far older than we think, and if so, why haven't remains been found?
Homo sapiens, or intelligent ones, are only in the region of 250,000 years old. The dinosaurs shown on many of these stones, lived millions of years before then.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Kellemora » 26 May 2013, 10:29

Tongue in cheek.

Maybe they could make such microfine etchings, because man was only the size of an amoeba for a million or more years.

FWIW: There are many so-called dinosaurs in museums, made from assembled bones, that never really existed on earth.
They have the wrong heads on the wrong bodies with the wrong legs, things like that.
I used to know the names of a few of them. That were later proven to be man-made concoctions of mis-information.

Even though I did study archaeology for a while, and went on a few local digs. It is not nearly the conclusive science, some folks think it is.
I've walked creek beds as a kid, and often found stones shaped by nature and running water, that one would never expect to find. I used to enjoy collecting arrowheads too. Only to learn that what appears to be a flint, carefully chipped by an Indian to make an arrowhead, is actually a natural disintegration of that type of flint. It looks hand tooled and shaped into an arrowhead.
And if one was really logical about the number of arrowheads discovered. Despite the fact we had two warring tribes that were still at it when I was young. (We have two reservations, The Rockwood Reservation and the Richwoods Reservation, with a highway dividing the two reservations).
Even if given 200 years, they could not have possibly made the number of arrowheads that have been picked up and sold as arrowheads over the last 100 years. And how could they be so plentiful, everywhere in the county?
If one looks at a field of clover long enough, they will find more four leaf clovers than Carters has pills.
Same with arrowheads. Keep looking and you WILL find several, at least in our area back home.

Somebody had to make those carved disks, they obviously didn't happen naturally.
And we don't know that 100% of the dinosaurs were killed off.
We still find living creatures today from that era.
Just because they have not found evidence of man yet, don't mean that man was not there then.
It just means they have not yet discovered anything to indicate it. That's all.

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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 27 May 2013, 07:37

Hi there Gary,

Yes, you've made some good observations there, and particularly about the skeletal remains of creatures long gone. I've always suspected that many of them've had the wrong heads put onto wrong bodies or, when built up into what we THINK they looked like, are probably very wrong.

The one that I tend to disagree with, are the T Rex type, with the shorter forelegs. When these animals are depicted standing, or feeding, for example, their tails are set in an upwards position behind them, but I don't think they would've been.
Take the kangaroo ...

http://yhsbiology.wikispaces.com/file/v ... -5legs.jpg

Their tails move into a more horizontal position when running, so that they're able to keep their balance, but when standing still, their tails drop down, and probably help when balancing on their rear legs in a stationary position as well.

I could be wrong. I'm not a zoologist or paleontologist, but the "mock ups" of these ancient creatures don't look right sometimes.

You're right in that we're still finding - or have - animals from the dinosaur eras. You only have to look at monitor lizards and crocodiles. These've been around for eons, but've probably decreased in original size, due to climate change and food shortage.

Some of the arrowheads you mentioned've certainly been around for longer than 100-200 years. In the UK, flint was formed in the southern chalk deposits up to 100 million years ago. I'm sure that similar stuff was formed in your country just as long ago - maybe longer, and man would've soon learnt that they could fashion tools and weapons out of it.

It really does fascinate me though. For all our so-called knowledge, we can't make definite statements, because we weren't around in those days, and in any case, carbon dating isn't as accurate as people think. Beyond 60,000 years, there isn't enough carbon left to give figures with any accuracy, so until we unearth further and better proof of what we have so far, much of it's theory and guesswork.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Kellemora » 27 May 2013, 11:42

Although I know radiation is a part of carbon dating. I have to laugh at some of the methodology and basic science they seem to overlook when using it.

A large boulder may break free from a mountain. Perhaps it breaks into smaller pieces, or perhaps it just continues to be washed down the streambed into it becomes a smooth stone, like many you see in creekbeds.

It would be impossible to determine the age of that stone, simply because it is continually being eroded away, its surface scoured and scrubbed away from movement down the creekbed.

Artifacts found in caves, could have laid their for centuries. Geographic changes could have sealed that cave for a millennium.
A natural disaster may have reopened that cave, so the artifact was discovered. Or possible an animal picked it up, carried it into a forest, and a forest fire added to the buildup on it. Another animal carries it to another cave, where it sits for another millennia.

If the earth did undergo catastrophic events, those events could easily change the articles themselves in some fashion that makes our carbon dating totally useless.

Unless an alien race who developed space travel, grew in technology and then reverted back after visiting earth, which is possible. We've seen it here on earth many times. Advanced technology is lost when the world gets lazy, and/or they kill each other off.
I am more inclined to think that the ancient artifacts we do fine, that are attributed to aliens. Are more than likely, previous advance civilizations who have come and gone. Perhaps some long before the dinosaurs even.
Even so, I do not discount the fact that other planets in other solar systems are populated.
When one considers the size of the universe, and the millions of galaxies out there. Regardless of how some folks interpret the bible. I don't think God would have wasted the vastness of space on our little planet.
At one time, people used to think the universe revolved around planet earth.
Many still think the world revolves around them too, hi hi.....
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 27 May 2013, 13:29

:P Hello Gary,

Yes, I agree with you. I suppose radioactive carbon dating's the nearest thing we have to putting an approximate age on something, but as you say, all sorts of things could put that out by thousands of years - if not millions.

I don't think we're the only intelligent life form in the entirety of all space. It'd seem absurd to think that only human beings sprang up on earth, but nowhere else - unless David Icke's right, and we come from elsewhere! :grin:

Of course, maybe after all our searching and experise, we might find that the Bible was right all along; that God made man in his own image and he's just always been, without beginning or end. That's difficult for us to comprehend, because we can't imagine anything that hasn't been created or evolved, but because we, as humans, all come to an end, perhaps God, or gods don't have to? It seems incomprehensible to us to imagine that, because we have no way of explaining how that could possibly be. Maybe that's where genuine faith comes in - the best that human beings can do? We're told in holy texts that God's the Almighty and everlasting, and that we're to believe in this in order to have everlasting life ourselves one day. Maybe, Gary, maybe. None of us know one way or the other. :shock:
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Kellemora » 28 May 2013, 10:15

Well, I believe in God as the creator of all things.
But how he caused it all to take place, could be exactly as science sees it.
The Big Bang could have been planned by God, if he put all things into a beginning seed, so to speak.

Logic dictates that when one looks at the complexity of life. It couldn't have been by accident.

The bible does not tell us about the interval between, God made and God recreated.
It does not discount life on other planets, because it is a book only for those of us on this planet.
And we are told, planet earth will be recreated again as a new heaven and new earth.

Other sheep have I that are NOT of this fold.

Could be rewritten to read. Other peoples have I that are NOT of this planet.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 28 May 2013, 10:41

I've never noticed that bit before Gary - truly. Where abouts in the Bible do you find it? I must say that I agree with you again. It'd make sense wouldn't it?

Maybe the answers are all there if we look properly, but there are so many interpretations of the Good Book - and not just in our Bibles either. I don't know if you've read other holy texts, but quite frankly, there's not a lot of difference between them. They all allude to God, whether by that name or another, and there are similarities in all of them. Therefore, I think there's a basis of truth, but some of the stories've got twisted as they've been re-written and handed down. Despite that, since people in every country of the world believe in some higher power, I think it's all very well to write it off as nonsense.

On the other side of the coin, we have the scientific approach, and parts of the Bible which make an all-seeing, all-loving God seem somewhat remote, but as with everything else from a bygone age, we simply don't know.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Kellemora » 29 May 2013, 12:03

Hi Icey

If you mean about the "other sheep" that is in John 10:16 KJV.

John 10:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

***

I forget how many thousands of different bibles there are out there.
And yes I have several later unconventional bibles, supposedly from later findings.
But they all have serious flaws in them. Many you can tell are written by the same more modern authors.

I stick to the KJV, simply because nearly all of it is proven factual, and because of the harmony that holds it all together.
Despite the many different authors, they all agree, no matter which angle you look at it.
The few things that appear to be disputes or different, have quite logical explanations to them.

There are also numerous bibles offering the opposing views, claiming they are more correct, even when their own texts continually contradicts itself.
Just because a quoted document is OLDE, don't mean it is true or accurate.
Many have been proven to be false propaganda, used to keep people from the true gospel.

We don't really need a Bible at all, because the Holy Spirit writes into our hearts, what is correct.
And by the same token, points out when something is drastically wrong with something you may be reading.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 29 May 2013, 16:36

My mum'd agree with your last bit Gary. She's a believer, but says that neither Bibles nor churches are necessary if you have God in your life. Having said that, she appreciates that some people find comfort in reading them, and you have to've listened to sermons and/or read the bible yourself, in order to understand what it says.

Don't worry, I knew what you meant by the KJV.
There ARE many different versions, and some differ from others, but even so, over all, their messages are reasonably similar, so they surely can't all be fictitious?

Thank you for pointing to the passage about the "other sheep". I shall take a look again when I have some spare time. I honestly couldn't recall it - and no, I didn't disbelieve you; I just couldn't remember reading that bit.

I wonder though - is it possible that: * And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.* refers to non-believers - atheists, or people of other religions? I don't know what else John says about it, if anything, but it doesn't strike me as appertaining to beings on another planet; more that God was saying he wanted to bring everyone on earth together under the "one true god" sort of thing?
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Kellemora » 30 May 2013, 10:11

I don't like those buildings that put on a Sunday show, pass around a collection plate and call themselves churches.

You mom has it right! Church is comprised of believers, meeting together in fellowship when possible.
Has nothing to do with a building.
And 100% of Religions were made By Man, for Man, to draw them away from Christ and His Church.

If you are curious about space travel and aliens visiting, perhaps a read through of Ezekiel might be interesting to you.
Was he talking about the past, or the future or visitors from other planets?

Ancient Aliens: “In the Book of Ezekiel, the prophet describes a flying chariot containing wheels within wheels and powered by angels. Although Bible historians suggest Ezekiel was speaking symbolically about the terrifying enemies facing Israel, could this be another example of an alien visitation and proof that pre-historic aircraft existed?”
Ezekiel’s vision is often used to try to support the Ancient Astronaut theory.
(If I recall, he is actually describing an Angel in all its glory.)

There is another very interesting phrase in the bible, that could be taken to mean an ancient radio, or even a transporter like on star trek. I've looked but can't remember the exact wording to find it.
I've also has Ruth's daughter read how it is written in Hebrew and she agreed that it could mean that, just as easily as any other English interpretation.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 30 May 2013, 11:36

Oh yes - I know about the Ezekiel one, and I have to admit that it sounds EXTREMELY like an alien visitation. I can't agree that he was speaking about Israel's enemies, or surely he would've just said so? I know that some Bible passages can be cryptic, but .... no, I think there was something more to that one, which prompts the questions posed by Erich von Daniken in Chariot of the Gods, etc.

I watched a fascinating interview with Erich. The camera crew was following him on his travels, and he was explaining about artefacts and their alien connection. I defy anyone to pooh-pooh what he said, because his arguments made perfect sense.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Kellemora » 31 May 2013, 11:20

I don't discount any theory.....

We listened to a speaker who was an avid alien visitor proponent.
He presented his case more convincingly than any I had ever heard previously.
And he hit on the topic of why we so so few, if any, in our present day.
Although he gave numerous interesting reasons, the most simple explanation was, we have too much JUNK in orbit now.
WE track our junk in space, so our own space ships can avoid them.
But they wouldn't know they were running into a bunch of junk, until it was too late.
They can scan and see the junk and go, whoa Nellie, let's not go there. Too Dangerous.
Besides, look at those ARMED Satellites. We best not poke our nose in where it don't belong.
We'll just wait until they kill themselves off, then send a sky cleaner to clean up the mess they made.

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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 31 May 2013, 12:00

Possibly so.

I don't generally take too much notice of theories - or perhaps I should say conspiracy theories really - but I agree with you about that speaker. Most of these people are eloquent, but when presented with an alternative way of thinking, it can be interesting can't it? Many things COULD make sense, but whether it's the truth or not doesn't matter. If something's conceivable, and a person puts a good argument forward, yes, I'll listen.

As yet, we don't know what's out there in space. I believe that many planets are inhabited by some sort of life form - maybe even Mars is, yet we probably don't even know of how it could exist yet, but life as a whole's fascinating. As time moves on, I'm sure we'll find more answers, and yet sometimes I think that maybe the fun's in NOT knowing. If we had all the answers to everything, there'd be nothing left to explore, and to dream or write about, but the thought of finding new life excites me, and it'd be great to live to see another planet being colonized.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Kellemora » 01 Jun 2013, 11:04

Heck, is PINK skinned people may have traveled here from MARS, hi hi.....

Look at the fish and plant life they found around the HOT, POISON vents in the bottom of our oceans.

Until they were discovered, it was considered NOTHING could live at:
a) a depth that great (they would be crushed)
b) above a certain temperature (they would boil)
c) in a highly poison atmosphere (they would be poisoned)
d) where no oxygen exists (a wrong assumption, there is oxygen, minute but there)

We also assume that a living body must contain water. WHY? Because that's what is used on planet earth?
Why couldn't a lifeform need ammonia or a gas instead of water? Or even a metal for that matter.

We have cold blooded creatures, and warm blooded creatures, and now we know of HOT blooded creatures.
And what about creatures with no blood, like some insects.

I can just see some very advanced civilization in a distant galaxy spying on us, laughing their ever lovin' tails off at us.
Look at those yoyo's down there on planet earth, making computer chips out of silica sand. How primitive.
And they spend a fortune for them too. While riding on a mower cutting down the source of free computing power and call it grass. And look, they still use friction and sparks to make electric. Let's check back in on them in another thousand years or so to see if they have advanced any. What's this, my goodness, they have regressed, back in the stone age again. I guess they will never learn. Let's wait another 5000 years before checking back on them again.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 01 Jun 2013, 14:19

:lmao1: :cool2:

I like your way of thinking. Yes, I think we're excessively primitive in comparison to what might be out there, and just because we have blood and need oxygen in order to breathe and pump blood round our bodies, who, indeed, has the right to state that all living things require water, or that they need the gases which we do? In fact, there could be hundreds of undiscovered gases in some far-off world, or as you say - would they need any at all?

Yes, microbes can live at vast temperatures, and there are species of marine life which live at the bottom of the deepest oceans. Who knows what's yet to be discovered? Some of it might put our "scientific knowledge" to shame.

Perhaps some intelligent life forms are invisible to our eyes, but exist, never-the-less. This's why I like the prospect of space travel, so that one day, we can travel throughout universes and perhaps find some answers and new sciences.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby kg » 01 Jun 2013, 16:47

Kellemora wrote:I can just see some very advanced civilization in a distant galaxy spying on us, laughing their ever lovin' tails off at us.
Look at those yoyo's down there on planet earth, making computer chips out of silica sand. How primitive.


Oh, it could be worse. There could also be silica-based lifeforms out there, who saw us making silicon based processors and think of it as "food abuse," or even worse, cannibalism!

"Look at those ignorant carbon based savages! We should eradicate them and save our brothers and sisters from such ignominious treatment!"
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 01 Jun 2013, 19:40

Beautiful! :lmao4:
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Kellemora » 02 Jun 2013, 14:28

When we consider the age of our earth and/or universe as far as we have learned what is out there, and still growing.
Compared to how long WE have had any type of technology in our current generations.
We are less than a spec of dust along a very long timeline, and smaller than an atom, compared to the universe.

We know from our own recent history, how empires grew and vanished.
From stone age to present has been shorter than a flash in the pan.
And we know nothing about previous era cycles on planet earth, much less about anything in the universe.

There could easily have been a million or more "flashes in the pan" that grew as we did and obliterated themselves.
Just as we are about to do in the very near future!
Will those who come after us, be able to go back far enough to learn about US, once they develop to the stage of investigative technology.

I know there are all kinds of SciFi novels written that in one way or another include the core of our earth.
Many show a huge danger of boring a hole into the earth and reaching magma.
But isn't that technically exactly what a volcano is?
They blow their top when the pressure gets high enough.
But what if we had a controlled digging that made a hole to the core of the earth, with release vents.
Spent fuel rods from our nuclear reactors, could be fed back into the core of the earth, where they would be neutralized.
Or would that be polluting the core of our own planet, hi hi.....

Another fellow I was reading, came up with an idea.
We could shoot our spent cores into space, but not just any old place in space.
We should send them straight into the sun. It might help the sun to last longer, hi hi.....
In his book, he developed a very cheap and reasonably safe method of doing this.
Although SciFi, it appeared to be quite possible. And possibly even profitable.

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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Ice.Maiden » 02 Jun 2013, 18:28

Erm ... I hope they never bury spent radioactive rods in the centre of the earth, but I don't think it'd be feasible. Sending it off to the sun'd cost a fortune and'd burn up before it even got there, but we certainly don't want radioactive waste floating around us, even though there's a lot of natural radiation round us anyway. Maybe we could ship it to Mars? This's the trouble. We create the hideous stuff and then don't know how to get rid of it.

I agree that we're smaller than an atom in comparison to the universe. I always liken us to a grain of sand in a desert.

I think that it's important to look ahead to a time when maybe man starts all over again, and that we leave reminders for when humans catch up again on technology. It's no good putting things to disc or microchip. No one'd have a clue how to decipher/work anything - which's probably what those Dropa stones are, yet we don't know how to read them yet. We need to put photos, illustrated instructions and samples of how we live, into time capsules which're able to withstand not just a few hundred years of changing weather, but in something that'll last for thousands or millions of years, so that one day, someone can come across them and be able to gain an understanding into what these relics were used for. Writing gets forgotten, so visual things are more important.
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Re: Of any interest?

Postby Kellemora » 03 Jun 2013, 11:51

I chuckled when they placed the gold record on one of our far space satellites.
By our way of thinking, any intelligent life would understand vibration and see a record as an audio vibratory tool.
However, they are assuming that another intelligent life form has hearing within the range of our hearing.
What if it's higher or lower, or totally non-existent in other life forms?
Let's assume they do hear within our same hearing range. What if their physics are different than ours, then their whole system of math would be different, thus all of the mathematics we used to communicate would be meaningless as well.

Assuming they do hear and understand math. Would they think we talk in numbers all the time, hi hi.....
I think they included images etched in gold as well. Also, assuming an alien may have eyes like ours. Seems logical.
But what if they see in a whole different range of light than we do? The images may be most confusing to them.

If I asked you to go to the kitchen and get me a fork, and you have no idea what a fork is, the instruction would be impossible for you to follow.

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