Traffic Laws [split]

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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby pilvikki » 19 Sep 2014, 05:25


tourists?

:think:

same difference...?

:lol:
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Ice.Maiden » 19 Sep 2014, 05:48

:lol:

Don't think it matters either way. Most people KNOW that you can't just follow a vehicle over those retractable bollards - yet they still try, or forget that you need a code or swipe card to gain access. :doh:
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby pilvikki » 19 Sep 2014, 07:01


but unless you're a local you'd not know you can't follow the bus there? know what I mean, you can't see sod-all from behind a bus/truck/camper/simon cowell's ego...

I don't know, i'm Still finding quirks of traffic rules that blow me away. especially those everybody else ignores as well.

:roll:
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Kellemora » 19 Sep 2014, 14:08

Funny! We don't have those here. Probably a good thing too!

Added definition here: A Treadle is a set of points that raise manually, counter-weighted, to pop car tires.
We did have something called Treadles at a few places, like on an exit to prevent folks from coming in the exit.
A few of them did some major damage to folks cars, especially long vehicles passing over them. The owner of the Treadles could be sued for the damage to a vehicle, if they were using it properly of course. Cities who owned a few removed them due to lawsuits.

Are there enough warning signs telling of these "bollards" so folks don't accidentally run into them?
I ask because all of the cars in the video who hit one were following behind a bus. When the bus went, they went. If you look at the angle from their eyes down to the road, their own hood blocked their view of the devices, and the only thing I saw that looked like a possible warning light was not in a location observable by the driver, vision of it blocked by the bus.

Have any ever raised up while a car or long truck for example, was over them?
I'm thinking a long flatbed truck, or a truck that hauls utility poles that is open between the cab and front of the trailer, and the back axles are way behind the open area under the truck.
If they raised back up as a truck hauling utility poles were passing over them. Not only would it tear the back axles from the truck, it would also cause his load to be lost all over the roadway, and possible onto the sidewalks next to the roadway.

One malfunction could cause a lot of serious problems and possibly death to innocent bystanders.

TTUL
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Ice.Maiden » 19 Sep 2014, 15:01

In the UK, these bollards're usually placed at entrances/exits to private roads or in business car parks not available to the general public. There's just enough room for cars or trade vehicles (plumber's vans, etc.), but not buses or HGVs Buses wouldn't be expected to use these access roads, and that's why I found Vikki's vid so comical - especially with cars trying to zoom through the spaces and getting caught on the rising bollards! : )

Not far away from us, there's a select area where these bollards're used for residents' security. If a large vehicle has to pass down the road (a removal lorry, for instance), they have to obtain permission first. A swipe card or key can be issued under these circumstances, and the bollards're usually accompanied by CCTV to deter other people from trying to get through.

More and more Councils're using them on general roads, and they can be very dangerous. They rise and retract in about 3 seconds, so a car trying to follow a legit vehicle'll get stuck. A woman successfully sued her Council when immense damage was caused to her BMW as she tried to drive between two of these bollards.
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby pilvikki » 19 Sep 2014, 15:32


erm... why did she have to try to get through there? if it was her burg, she ought to have known?

I don't like the idea of them at all. in Carcassonne they have them for exiting the Cité. what if you'd step on one in a crowd? hm... I wonder...
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Ice.Maiden » 19 Sep 2014, 16:08

I don't think the woman who sued, lived on the road she was trying to drive down, but it's easy enough to spot these retractable things, because either they have brick or concrete posts on either side, and these house the computerised receptors, or they light up anyway and made of stainless steel, so you can see that they're not standard structures.

If an unauthorised vehicle tries to go between these bollards, they respond to the weight and speed of such. This seems to be set at 4000 - 5500lbs, so a human being wouldn't make any impact on the mechanism.
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Kellemora » 20 Sep 2014, 11:08

Seems mighty expensive to install and maintain these things.

We have gates and the like, most just have a wooden drop bar that would break and not damage a vehicle should someone hit it. Try to sneak through one, or have someone lift the gate by hand, usually gets your license plate photo taken, and a photo of the driver from another camera. They will gladly mail you a ticket, in fact, it's automatic, hi hi...
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby pilvikki » 20 Sep 2014, 11:41


what about a fat motorbike with very fat people on it? :lol: for those bollards?
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Ice.Maiden » 21 Sep 2014, 13:57

:lmao4:

As for electronic gates, most of ours don't lift up Gary, they swing open just as when you'd open them manually, or a single gate'd slide sideways across an entrance.

Retractable bollards aren't all that expensive - certainly cheaper than electronic gates. They start at less than £100 (or less than $163) and anti-ram ones start at less than £127 ( $207).
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Kellemora » 22 Sep 2014, 08:41

Hi Icey

The ones in the video can't be that cheap. Just a replacement stainless steel upper cylinder is probably over a grand.

We had a couple of electronic gates on our farm, and a sliding gate leads to my brothers.
The hydraulic actuators for the swinging gases was only like 200 bucks each for manual trigger, 350 for push button coded keypad and mounting pole, not installed. The gate actuating system leading to my brothers cost well over 3 thousand dollars, not counting the actual gate itself.
I used to tease him about the cost of it, because a low cost garage door opener could have done the same thing. He got even with me by saying they tried using one before opting for the expensive system.
Just the control system for the gate was over a grand, then the security box and keypad was like another 6 or 7 hundred.
I don't know what all was involved but they needed concrete mountings dug and poured, a twin power system, electric and battery backup for if the power was out. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he said the cost shot to well over 3 grand by the time all was said and done.

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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Ice.Maiden » 22 Sep 2014, 10:45

Hi Gary. Yes, electronic gates can notch up to a hefty amount, but the bollard system over here isn't so expensive. They're not as secure as the gates though, unless you place several of them close together, since people can walk past them, but their main purpose's to prevent vehicles from accessing wherever they're put.
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Kellemora » 23 Sep 2014, 10:33

Hi Icey

I just completed doing some research. Waded through massive amounts of government data from the Leicestershire County Council.
Although I was only concerned with the cost for a two-bollard automatic system, I read about almost every type of roadway control system used in Leicestershire, including how they paint the lines, install signs, etc.

Here is the kick-off point of my research, the rest is from links off that page.
http://www.leics.gov.uk/index/htd/highw ... _part3.htm

It appears the city pays 350 lira is it, I may be wrong, it could mean pounds, so consider everyplace I used lira it could mean pounds, the L symbol? For a single fixed bollard, not installed, of the type used for traffic control. They use many types of bollards for several different purposes.

Under automatic bollards, they have both shallow and deep types. The type shown in the video we watched were twin bollard deep install. Just the complete system, excluding installation and services required to install them, ranged from 8,000 lira to well over 15,000 lira. The cost range depended on if the installation was on independent local box control, interconnected traffic control on a link system, or if the system was controlled via a computerized network.
Shallow systems cost around 3,000 lira to install. Deep systems 5,000 lira and up, depending upon obstructions and services in an area.
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Ice.Maiden » 24 Sep 2014, 13:16

Thanks Gary, and I assume you mean pounds (£).

Well we have sensor pads up our driveway. We also have electronic gates, and the gates were much dearer than the bollards, but considered a better investment.
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby pilvikki » 25 Sep 2014, 07:11


well... gates stop more than cars. like stray dogs and people. they're very popular here - the gates :lol: - to the point that people have electronic gates in places where one could simply drive around them in anything higher off the ground than a Ferrari.

I seriously cannot see the point of those.

:shrug:
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Ice.Maiden » 25 Sep 2014, 08:17

Nor me. I know the sort you mean.
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby pilvikki » 25 Sep 2014, 16:31


but they look cool!

:lmao4:
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Ice.Maiden » 25 Sep 2014, 16:53

Go onnnn .... invest in some!!! : )
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Kellemora » 26 Sep 2014, 10:48

Many eons ago, I used to make a delivery to a man way out in the boonies. I was one of the few drivers who knew who he was or where he lived, and how to get to his house.
He was a good customer of ours, and I told him when he orders, he doesn't need to give his address, which was useless anyhow. Just say the house with the 5 mph bump gate and we'll know where to go.
You should see the looks on some of the drivers faces when they saw a delivery for address, 5 mph bump gate.
Whenever we had an order going to his house, I would take one of the new drivers with me, and out of orneriness I wouldn't tell them a single word, other than write down the turns on how to get here.
Scared the bejesus out of them when I approached his house and they saw the gate looming closer, closer, closer, and I wasn't stopping to open it. They though I was crashing right through the mans gate! The looks on their faces, priceless.
Obviously, by the address, 5 mph bump gate, you had to hit the gate at exactly 5 mph and it would open. If you hit it going slower, it wouldn't open far enough for you to get all the way through before it slapped the side of the truck. If you hit it going faster than that, it would bounce open and back shut again, right into the side of the truck. But at 5 mph, the speed it was designed for, you could get through with ease, even in a truck twice as long, like in a stake truck or long step van.

We had one other delivery, local too, none of our drivers could ever find. They would always come home with the package and I would have to run it back out to the customer. Phunny, because it was only like a mile away from our shop, and the house was probably close to 100 years old. Big Place too!
The simplest way I know to word this is, he sold his humongous front yard to a subdivision developer, so there was a subdivision in front of his house. Not so bad in the early years, but then up near the road, another developer built a row of houses on top of the hill above the subdivision, with houses so close together they almost touched each other.
If one did not pay close attention, they wouldn't realize one of the houses had a driveway on both sides of his house. Only one was not a driveway, it was much wider, but narrow for a two lane street.
It was the private drive to this mans house. Even though it passed through the lower subdivision, there was no access to it from the lower subdivision on either side of his private drive. Although a road did run under it. It was hilly there, so it was like a drive at the top of hill running along some backyards of subdivision homes.
OK, back to the houses at the top of the hill. This was a side road that ended in a cul-de-sac and the drive to get to this guys house was between the two houses, just before you reached the cul-de-sac and since these were on a hill, most were split level houses and their driveways downhill to a garage under the house. The drive went down, then back up to the rise above the lower subdivision. Again, the poor new driver with me thought I was crazy, turning down some guys driveway to get to a road that brought me to the delivery point.

When I first met Ruth, I brought her to some of our customers that were hard to find, because she liked to see things like that. Most of them were long gone by the time I married Debi. Shame too, she would have loved to meet a few of them. Each was a character in his/her own right!

TTUL
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Re: Traffic Laws [split]

Postby Ice.Maiden » 26 Sep 2014, 13:25

*Each was a character in his/her own right!

I bet they were, Gary - but I know exactly what you're saying about (shall we say) hidden driveways leading to people's property, and having to access them via other driveways or tracks/lanes. We have quite a few places like that over here, and unless a delivery driver knows the route, even though they may have sat navs, they'll come to a halt when, getting directed to a point, they don't find what they're expecting to find!

As a small example (or perhaps a big one), there's a village church which stands on the Chatsworth estate in Derbyshire. To reach it, you have a to drive away from the area, and yet from the main house itself, it's a mere couple of minutes away. Unless you know the way, drivers get completely stuck.

Another example's of small rural hamlets which aren't even on the map. You have to drive all round the houses to find these places, when in fact, narrow lanes'd take you there from a main road in a tenth of the time. Many people can't find them at all - lol!
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